• Well put, and I hope to see your documentary. I hate the idea of vaccinations and believe they can be harmful individually but we are part of a community and as such, we have responsibilities to each other, so my son'a vaccinations are up to date. The reality is that no one knows what will happen to us or our children, whether we are talking about injury by vaccine, or injury by preventable disease, or running in a marathon where a terrorist is in wait, or getting in a car and being wiped out by a drunk driver. We all do what we can for our kids and we can try and protect them as much as we can - but none of us escape misfortune. I have a friend whose son has shocking tumours and a limited life span. My own son has a platelet disorder which means we have to be constantly vigilant that he doesn't injure himself lest he bleed internally. Let's do what we can for our own - but let's not harm others in the process. - Alice Smith
  • What a fabulously challenging topic. Jackdan, very well delivered argument. I'd love to see your research. Publish it! Sonya, I look forward to tomorrow night's documentary. Thanks for taking (what sounds like) a rational approach. - Misty
  • Thanks jack... a very interesting response and, from my communications with Sonya I think this is exactly the conversation she's hoping for. Be very interested to hear your response after viewing the doco. - Wendy Harmer
  • As someone who doesn't follow the Australian Vaccination schedule, I already feel like I am risking ridicule and worse posting here. We have been hassled and hounded by doctors, nurses (one of us is a nurse) and other parents. Blamed for the resurgence Whooping cough and related deaths, etc. Our stance is that we immunise based on our own needs and intelligence. As a for instance, we are not convinced that our children needed to be vaccinated against Hepatitis B at birth, especially given that the vaccine contained Thiomersal when it was recommended to us. I'm not sure how aware you are of the Japanese experience with the DTP vaccinations in the mid 1970's, but as a result of many adverse reactions and over 30 deaths as a direct result of the vaccine, the schedule was altered and children were vaccinated later. I am aware that the vaccine is no longer a whole cell vaccine, however it is worth considering the delicate balance of the immune system in infants below 6 months of age. So we immunise roughly to the Japanese schedule. There is no Hep B or vericella. And MMR is given as MR and Mumps separately. We will make the call on Japanese when we visit next month. I note that the tone in the promotion of the doco appears to depict the non vaccination school as driven by emotion with the pro vaccination argument being driven by Science (which is a pretty broad concept). Our decision to vaccinate alternatively has been based on a lot of careful research and is based on risk mitigation considering that vaccinations do carry a percentage of risk, however small. We have the advantage of also being Japanese citizens, (myself a spouse resident) and can access the differently combined vaccines and scheduling. When recently discussing this on a facebook post I was branded an anti Vaccinator. Abused and blamed. My response is that I think there is a better way. A much better way. And the heavy handed pressure to Immunise to schedule, which then elicits a strong anti response from those who question, but are discouraged strongly and frowned upon for questioning, has created a climate of 'for or against', emotion or science, us against them. All pretty narrow reductive way to explore a whole collection of different diseases, risks, and vaccines (including their varieties of compositions, combinations and timing). So we have attempted to immunise the best way that we can ascertain. It's a tricky time consuming task to get all the info on each different vaccine from the manufacturers, to research each and every disease to ascertain the risks of actually contracting it and then what the risks associated with the disease are, but it has been worthwhile. I think that the community could benefit from a less doctrinal approach to the current immunisation schedule and regular review of disease risks and the vaccination schedule response. - Jackdan
  • I'm an E cup. When I was younger and skinnier I was only a C cup and could handle underwires. Then I got pregnant and discovered the bliss of maternity bras. Post babies and breastfeeding I went back to the wires only to find they poked me and now I've got 'birdseyes' in my cleavage. I cannot fathom the underwire. Obviously the person who designed it has never had to wear one. Having big boobs we're all encouraged to wear them, but now I'm old and fat they're far too uncomfortable to contemplate. I'm happy with my 'wirefree' bras. I figured that if manufacturers could make a maternity bra without wires that fitted perfectly and provided excellent support to lactating breasts, they could do the same for large, non-lactating breasts too. I found the perfect fit for me at a large chain store and bought the same type for years. Not terribly sexy, but comfortable and serviceable. Now I've discovered same large chain has a moulded cotton bra in large sizes. Better still, you can order them online when the sales are on and collect them from the store. Bliss! - BeansGran
  • Well put Sonya. I am so glad that you have created this documentary. Also, you have put forward a voice of reason backed up by compelling evidence & your own credibility. I am pro-vaccination, but I understand why it is an delicate decision for many parents. I haven't come across the anti-vax theories (I'd never even heard of the AVN until Mamamia kept writing & tweeting about them). I'd always just followed the immunisation schedule. But I have come across a lot of pushy pro-vaxxers and I have to say, it is a turn off. I understand that it's a passionate issue. But is it an effective way of increasing immunisation rates? Of course not. Some pro-vaxxers make it their full time job to name, shame & harass people opposed to vaccination. Is harassment going to change their position, heck no! Is it going to galvanise their anti-vac position, quite probably! I just think we need to be smarter about this. I know it is not a "debate" in the sense that the science is in on the benefits & general safety of vaccines. But it completely normal to feel uneasy about purposely injecting your child with something most of us know very little about. And then watching their every breath that evening as they process that vaccine. Sonya, I hope that your documentary is the beginning of the change in the way we talk about immunisation. Well done. - Kasey
  • I am very impressed by what you've set out to achieve and how you've come about it. Much of my work these days is in vaccination and I work hard to break down the myths and false beliefs people have about vaccines. I find listening to concerns, empathy and responding with good evidence based information has been the most successful manner I've had so far. I also reassure parents that it is always their choice, but I also share that I am a mum too and that I choose to vaccinate my child fully. And funnily enough that's usually the clincher. Respect, good information and empathy can go a long way. I really hope that many people watch your documentary and help absolve the many concerns and myths surrounding vaccination that are out there. You must be proud of your work :) - The Huntress
  • Not everyone has access too or any interest in the internet, you cannot drive a tractor and watch the internet but you can listen to radio, you cannot drive a car and watch the internet but you can listen to radio, you cannot wash the dishes, the clothes, yourself and watch the internet but you can listen to the radio, you can also lie in bed with Phillip Adams, half my University of the Third Age students go to bed with Phillip. Australia's best journalists were trained by the ABC. What I don't understand Gee is your palpable hatred, how can you be so angry all the time, just relax and learn that we are all different and some of us prefer the quiet nature of the ABC compared with the ranting and rage of radio shock jocks and commercial TV. Your phrase 'slash and burn' is shocking to me, no one I know hates anything, no one I know wants to destroy things or institutions, not even the IPA, why such violence of language? - sue Bell
  • [...] Science says vaccinate! [...] - LET'S TALK (NOT SHOUT) VACCINATION
  • Thankyou Emma for your good work and humanistic attitude towards others. I could not do your job and be nice to others at the same time, i'v e realized. The other ABC journo's et al should be taking notes.......all the best in your career! - louise
 
10
Categories:  News and Opinion

HEY, BARBARA. SEE YOU IN COURT

By The Hoopla
August 15, 2012

It was in 2009 when we first found out that Australian banks were making almost $1 billion in penalty fees from consumers.

Up until then the banks had refused to disclose the information.

The report released by the Reserve Bank of Australia also found that it was households bearing the brunt of unfair penalty fees, paying $961 million – nearly 83% of them.

Since then the fees – for overdrafts, overdrawn accounts, dishonoured cheques, over-the-limit credit card accounts and late payments – have been coming down.

But consumer activists say the banks are still charging too much. Much, much more than is warranted and that’s led to Australia’s biggest-ever class action, now underway in the High Court.

Andrew Watson from law firm Maurice Blackburn is heading up the case on behalf of 170,000 bank customers against all of the nation’s major banks.

Mr Watson argues the fees are unfair.

“The distinction really boils down to are they a fee for a service? We say they’re not. Or are they a penalty? That is something that’s designed, in effect, to punish the customer,” he said.

“And we say they are penalties and that they’re out of all proportion to the cost to the bank.”

The High Court appeal against the ANZ Bank is a test case being financed by litigation  company IMF Australia which takes on cases where the claim size is more than $5 million. The company is paying for the lawyers and will cover costs if the case is lost. But it also charges fees, about 25 per cent of any winnings.

If the fee-paying customers win, lawyers hope all banks will have to pay back $220 million.

The hope is that if banks lose their case, that the fees will be cut, or even abolished.

This is a case all Australians should be watching with interest.

Today The Hoopla wants to know… what are the bank fees and charges that really get up your nose?

Have you ever pursued a charge with a bank that you thought was unfair?

What was the result? 

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10 Responses to this article

  1. La Hola August 15, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Over the limit fees. Don’t let me go over the limit. Simple. Instead of charging me $40.

     
    • cate August 15, 2012 Reply
       
       

      Yep, allowing you to exceed limits and then charging for it is a money-making exercise for the banks, always has been. As a former bank employee I can occasionally see both sides (though certainly less of the bank’s), as in days gone by when there was more manual work involved, some assorted charges were a fair call for the amount of time a staff member may have to spend on a particular transaction, search, or request. by a customer But in these days of advanced technology, there is much less done ‘by hand’ and fees are excessive.
      I will add to the suncorp issue from emma, as to overdrawing your account when another transaction is perhaps in transit, the onus is on you to know the situation of your balance in those circumstances, but well done on getting a refund anyway. You don’t get if you don’t ask.

       
  2. emma August 15, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Suncorp. 40 dollars a pop for an overdrawn account. particularly infuriating when there appears to be enough money in the account, but it becomes overdrawn as a result of the bank allowing a withdrawal when there is already another transaction in train which the bank does not factor in to the account balances.
    I complain to the bank, they usually refund the fee, but I get told off by some pipsqueak bank employee for overdrawing the account. oh I hope they win this one, suncorp will owe me hundreds of dollars!

     
  3. The Huntress August 15, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Yep! I remember years back I had a boss who was incapable of paying the staff on time. I had a direct debit come out of my account – the payment rebounded as there wasn’t enough money in the account and I was charged $35, taking my account into arrears by about $20. My pay went through within a day or so and I grumbled about the unfairness of being charged $35 for my bosses tardiness.

    But it didn’t end there. At the end of the month a $20 “line of credit” fee came out of my account. I rang the bank to ask what the hell was going on and they said they charged a fee for allowing my account to go into arrears. I said the only reason my account went into arrears was that they charged me money for not having enough money (how on earth does that ever make sense?!?) and the so-called arrears on my account was due to their own fees. I was told that was how things are done, so I clarified that I was being charged $20 for the privilige of allowing my bank to charge me fees to penalise me for my bosses inability to pay me on time. So being $15 down on my direct debit cost me $55 in the end. I asked the woman why they didn’t just honour the direct debit and allow my account to go into arrears and then charge the $20 line of credit fee at the end of the month, but she really had no explanation for that.

    I have an explanation. It’s so they could rip off their customers.

     
  4. sam August 15, 2012 Reply
     
     

    I recently refinanced a mortgage and moved from one bank to another. the amount of fees I had to from both banks was enormous and sem to go on for months.

     
  5. Kris August 15, 2012 Reply
     
     

    A few years ago, I got petrol from the local servo. Eftpos lines were down, so it was done manually. Knew the money was there, as it was just past pay day, so I didn’t think any more of it.

    Just before next pay day, I checked my balance – $40 in arrears. Rang the bank to find out what was going on, as I’d had about $20 a few days before. The money for the petrol I had bought two weeks ago had only just come out of the account – along with all the end of the month fees etc. Because they didn’t process the manual eftpos thing til the end of the month – bank policy apparently.

    So, they charged me $30 for being $10 overdrawn – through no fault of mine.

     
  6. Kerry August 15, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Yeah – ANZ charged me $145 for purchasing a ticket on Thai Airlines on my Visa card (in Aussie $) – because apparently the transaction came from overseas….. Not fair. Bank policy I was told. so next time, I will phone Thai Sydney office and have to take up their time on a complex ticket purchase.

    I am totally over the ANZ stupid charges.

     
  7. Mrs Pops August 15, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Today the Cth Bank posted the largest corporate profit.Yes over $1 billion. My beef is ATM fees are forced on us when 90% of the time your banks ATM is nowhere to be seen. Feeding the banks with fees when it’s our money is wrong.

     
  8. Geoff August 15, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Only last month my bank rejected a direct debit to top up my Myki travel card. My account would have been overdrawn by $6.
    Having refused to allow my account to be over drawn they then charged me $5….which made my account overdrawn anyway. And my Myki was blocked from use as a side effect.

     
  9. Karen August 18, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Overdrawn fees is my bugbear.
    As a uni student I lived close to a zero balance most of the time. I had a direct debit that I had signed up for which had in the fine print that if my monthly payment could not be accessed one month they would attempt to take two payments the next month. Knowing this, I let my account balance go below the direct debit amount thinking with holiday soon starting I would have enough the next month. Instead I became overdrawn and charged another $30.
    I complained to the bank and was refunded and when I asked to remove this arrangement from my account. I was told the bank could not do so as they were obligated to honour all direct debit transactions.
    This is something that really has to change!

     

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Comments

  • Alice Smith: Well put, and I hope to see your documentary. I hate the idea of vaccinations and believe they can be harmful individual...

    Reply|Read all

  • Misty: What a fabulously challenging topic. Jackdan, very well delivered argument. I'd love to see your research. Publish it! ...

    Reply|Read all

  • Wendy Harmer: Thanks jack... a very interesting response and, from my communications with Sonya I think this is exactly the conversati...

    Reply|Read all

  • Jackdan: As someone who doesn't follow the Australian Vaccination schedule, I already feel like I am risking ridicule and worse p...

    Reply|Read all

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