• Sorry haven't time this morning to read all comments. But wanting to add I recently read an article where it suggests that its not necessarily just the people that are not being vaccinated alone that are newly spreading the diseases. But the vaccinations are NOT lasting as long as the companies and doctors say? I will try and find the article and link it later on . In a rush right now. But still Food for thought. - DP
  • I took the Smile Test and I passed!! This eye cream is amazing. I noticed a reduction in fine lines after three days and the deeper lines were definitely not as deep after a week. Other people started noticing and commenting on the difference after two weeks. The eye cream is rich and smooth and is absorbed quickly. It is scent-free and non-greasy. I will definitely keep using it because looking younger makes me feel younger. Thank you, Clinique and The Hoopla. - Merryl Donn
  • I agree with at least one or two of the statements (and if you'd seen my cousins, you'd be hoping it wasn't that one). The rest are hilarious. I loved Up The Duff and Kidwrangling. Now I'm just about to buy Girl Stuff for my daughter. What a gift that such a warm, clever and funny person has bothered to create these guides to our various stages of life. - Carolyn
  • You a past Labor member? That's a good one! So presumably you were once concerned about social justice. You railed against rampant materialism but because you perceive the ABC and its audiences believe in what you presumably once believed in, you want it slashed and burned and its journos tossed out into the streets? Huh? - Kel
  • Well what's your take on why the ABC PLUS the MSM refuses to investigate the Ashby affair; you know where a federal justice adjudicated that an LNP candidate in concert with Ashby conspired to bring down the government by fraudulently claiming sexual harassment by Slipper. Is this left wing bias? Who gains from non investigation of this issue? Furthermore why won't any journalist including our truth seeker Alberici, ask Pyne why he lied when asked about his dealings with Ashby. What about when Hockey denied meeting with Brough and Brough denied the number of times he had met Ashby. Gee this isn't about left or right wing bias, this is about the truth. Given that Limited News' 70% monopoly is dedicated to bringing down the government how does a citizen learn the truth about any issue confrronting this nation? - Kel
  • There is an issue with semantics regarding this article and Summers' thesis in general, which is the distinction between COURTESY and RESPECT. The social upheavals of the 1960s up-ended the notion that those in positions of authority were automatically entitled to respect. Whilst someone like Gillard shouldn't be subjected to threats, intimidation etc., few politicians have done more to undermine their own credibility. - Nathan
  • Well put, and I hope to see your documentary. I hate the idea of vaccinations and believe they can be harmful individually but we are part of a community and as such, we have responsibilities to each other, so my son'a vaccinations are up to date. The reality is that no one knows what will happen to us or our children, whether we are talking about injury by vaccine, or injury by preventable disease, or running in a marathon where a terrorist is in wait, or getting in a car and being wiped out by a drunk driver. We all do what we can for our kids and we can try and protect them as much as we can - but none of us escape misfortune. I have a friend whose son has shocking tumours and a limited life span. My own son has a platelet disorder which means we have to be constantly vigilant that he doesn't injure himself lest he bleed internally. Let's do what we can for our own - but let's not harm others in the process. - Alice Smith
  • What a fabulously challenging topic. Jackdan, very well delivered argument. I'd love to see your research. Publish it! Sonya, I look forward to tomorrow night's documentary. Thanks for taking (what sounds like) a rational approach. - Misty
  • Thanks jack... a very interesting response and, from my communications with Sonya I think this is exactly the conversation she's hoping for. Be very interested to hear your response after viewing the doco. - Wendy Harmer
  • As someone who doesn't follow the Australian Vaccination schedule, I already feel like I am risking ridicule and worse posting here. We have been hassled and hounded by doctors, nurses (one of us is a nurse) and other parents. Blamed for the resurgence Whooping cough and related deaths, etc. Our stance is that we immunise based on our own needs and intelligence. As a for instance, we are not convinced that our children needed to be vaccinated against Hepatitis B at birth, especially given that the vaccine contained Thiomersal when it was recommended to us. I'm not sure how aware you are of the Japanese experience with the DTP vaccinations in the mid 1970's, but as a result of many adverse reactions and over 30 deaths as a direct result of the vaccine, the schedule was altered and children were vaccinated later. I am aware that the vaccine is no longer a whole cell vaccine, however it is worth considering the delicate balance of the immune system in infants below 6 months of age. So we immunise roughly to the Japanese schedule. There is no Hep B or vericella. And MMR is given as MR and Mumps separately. We will make the call on Japanese when we visit next month. I note that the tone in the promotion of the doco appears to depict the non vaccination school as driven by emotion with the pro vaccination argument being driven by Science (which is a pretty broad concept). Our decision to vaccinate alternatively has been based on a lot of careful research and is based on risk mitigation considering that vaccinations do carry a percentage of risk, however small. We have the advantage of also being Japanese citizens, (myself a spouse resident) and can access the differently combined vaccines and scheduling. When recently discussing this on a facebook post I was branded an anti Vaccinator. Abused and blamed. My response is that I think there is a better way. A much better way. And the heavy handed pressure to Immunise to schedule, which then elicits a strong anti response from those who question, but are discouraged strongly and frowned upon for questioning, has created a climate of 'for or against', emotion or science, us against them. All pretty narrow reductive way to explore a whole collection of different diseases, risks, and vaccines (including their varieties of compositions, combinations and timing). So we have attempted to immunise the best way that we can ascertain. It's a tricky time consuming task to get all the info on each different vaccine from the manufacturers, to research each and every disease to ascertain the risks of actually contracting it and then what the risks associated with the disease are, but it has been worthwhile. I think that the community could benefit from a less doctrinal approach to the current immunisation schedule and regular review of disease risks and the vaccination schedule response. - Jackdan
 
Categories:  News and Opinion, Your Community

AN ONLINE BARGAIN? AT WHAT COST?

Are you joining the queue for the New Year sales or, instead, opting for an online discount?

There are any number of smarty-pants who congratulate themselves for avoiding the scrum in the sales with the “bogans”, even expressing sympathy for the poor shop assistant overwhelmed by the mob desperate for 50 percent off.

“Hah! We shop online”, they say. “We’re savvy shoppers – no parking hassles, pushing and shoving for us.”

But what’s so “savvy” about shopping online?

When we place an online order and it arrives – as if by magic – at our doorstep days later, we are only dimly aware of the chain of human labour and the earth’s resources that are expended for our convenience and choice.

What, after all, is a “bargain”?

Next time you click to make an order on your computer, it might be worth considering these first-hand accounts of the online story…

Amazon’s Lehigh Valley warehouse.

INSIDE AMAZON’S WAREHOUSE

By Spencer Soper.

“Lehigh Valley workers tell of brutal heat, dizzying pace at online retailer.

“Elmer Goris spent a year working in Amazon.com’s Lehigh Valley warehouse, where books, CDs and various other products are packed and shipped to customers who order from the world’s largest online retailer.

“The 34-year-old Allentown resident, who has worked in warehouses for more than 10 years, said he quit in July because he was frustrated with the heat and demands that he work mandatory overtime. Working conditions at the warehouse got worse earlier this year, especially during summer heat waves when heat in the warehouse soared above 100 degrees, he said.”

Read more.

PITY THE ELFSLAVES OF ONLINE SHOPPING

By Mac McClelland.

“Every time you click “Place Order,” a warehouse worker weeps.

“Since June, I’ve been ruining my friends’ online-shopping lives. Back then, I reported on a vast warehouse in Ohio where goods bought from online retailers are sorted, boxed, and shipped to consumers.”

Read more

SANTA’S WORKSHOP

“Sometimes we have no choice, we work till dawn. When you work all night you become dizzy and your eyes hurt because you can’t take any breaks. SANTA’S WORKSHOP takes you to the real world of China’s toy factories. Workers tell us about long working hours, low wages, and dangerous work places. Those who protest or try to organize trade unions risk imprisonment. Low labor costs attract more and more companies to China. Today more than 75 percent of our toys are made in China. But this industry takes its toll on the workers and on the environment.

“The European (and American) buyers blame bad conditions on the Chinese suppliers. But they say that increasingly hard competition gives them no option. Who should we believe? And what can you do to bring about a fairer and more humane toy trade?”

Watch the full Santa’s Workshop documentary here.

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8 Responses to this article

  1. Jackie December 26, 2011 Reply
     
     

    I felt one thing when I read this….anger.

    I am probably one of the exceptions but an exception none the less. See back in August I was in an accident that has left me wheelchair bound for sometime and right now just mobile around the house.

    Trust me, Christmas shopping in a busy mall is not where you want to be at Christmas when you are in a wheelchair…first off there is just the crowds, then there is the lack of cleanliness of disabled toilets (which usually double as a nappy change room so I get to smell the stenc dirty nappies whilst in there)

    We contend with the able bodied people parking in disabled spots so we have to parked on the 4th floor lower and poor hubby has to put me up a 75 degree incline for 10 minutes before we hit the shops!

    Instead this year I shopped onlne. I got several dressed for me from online stores like Millers which arrive within 3 days of order and fitted a treat.

    I also ordered wine from Brown Brothers, Food from Coles and a few other bibs and bobs here and there.

    So let’s face FACTS first shall we…

    You state 75% of toys are made in China (ALL TOYS) even the ones sold in stores.

    The dresses I brought online were made in China and also available IN STORE

    So really isn’t your point here mute…it doesn’t matter if purchased in store or online…the people mentioned will be working the same hours doing the same thing for shoppers regardless of their location.

    As for the Amazon workers, they are no different to staff working in Distribution Centres like the one Safeway has at Barnawartha or McDonalds has in the old GMH plant in Dandenong…..they work long hours for little pay and it’s a tedious boring job. So perhaps it would be better to address the conditions of employment and demand these workers have better condition to work in so that consumers can and will continue to happily shop in their preferred method

     
  2. Michelle December 26, 2011 Reply
     
     

    When Drive in theatres “died” in the late 80′s because of the advent of movies one could watch at home, Hollywood had to devise a new way to market their product to get people back to forking out their hard won $$ for the cinematic “experience”.

    In a similar way, I suspect that the Mall shopping concept is slowly going the same way as the Drive in movie. Malls are replete with franchised stores all offering the fodder of mass produced wares, often made in God knows what conditions overseas. This is the stuff being replaced by online shopping.

    Strip shopping (which ironically is as old fashioned as the Industrialised Age), will come back, if it can be marketed well, that is!

    Why? Because this kind of shopping can be an experience! Just like going to the movies now!

    This kind of shopping experience you just won’t get in full online. The savvy shops will have an online presence making their wares available in both environments.

    I also think the Strip Shopping will be much more eclectic, with interesting niche shops sprinkled amongst wonderful places to eat and relax.

    I will hazard a guess, that this kind of shopping – which hopefully, won’t feel mass produced or cheap – will figure out how to combine both the online shopping allure and the actual physical experience of the sale.

    We the Consumer will win either way.

    As for the arguments around the sweat shop slavery of workers in other countries: Australians may yet have some hard lessons to learn about our obsessive passion for über cheap product. Buying Fair Trade both online and in the shops will need all the marketing savvy of Hollywood but it will be worth it.

     
  3. Judy December 26, 2011 Reply
     
     

    Excellent response, Jackie.

    I read this article expecting to read something about the Australian online experience, so was somewhat disappointed that the bulk of the article was sourced from overseas, and, as Jackie pointed out, wasn’t particularly unique to online selling anyway.

    I am an Australian online retailer. I am based in Adelaide, I sell books, and I collect GST, just like other Australian businesses. I was still selling and posting books last Wednesday afternoon, to people around Australia who had purchased them intending to give them as Christmas gifts.

    If you want a real Australian online perspective, I’d be happy to talk with you.

     
  4. Sarah B December 28, 2011 Reply
     
     

    I agree with Jackie, as a casual worker for many years I can confirm that the situation at Amazon is not unique, the difference in Australia is that we have award conditions and OH & S regulations that go some way to keeping us safe. This probably makes us uncompetitive with China, but I agree, that’s not the fault of online trading.

     
  5. Valerie Parv December 28, 2011 Reply
     
     

    How come everything an ordinary person finds useful, affordable and beneficial automatically brings down the wrath of the righteous on our heads? Holding us personally responsible for the plight of the workers in other countries is right up there with “eat your crusts because elsewhere in the world, children are starving.” Undeniably true, but eating a few crusts or not buying a book online might make their lives even worse if they’re suddenly without any income. Shouldn’t we hold accountable the companies dodging Australian taxes and abrogating workers’ rights by moving their businesses offshore? If it would help, I’d gladly send them my crusts.

     
  6. mp December 29, 2011 Reply
     
     

    I agree with the sentiments here. I work a difficult job that I can guarantee would make most people buckle at the knees. It doesn’t mean I hate it (I don’t) or I’m having a bad life. I certainly don’t blame the customers when I’m having a bad day- it’s how I pay my bills.That’s life.

     
  7. Siggy January 4, 2012 Reply
     
     

    I dare say that the workers who produce and package the goods that are sold in traditional shops fare little better. Ethical sustainable manufacturing is an important topic for conversation but to see it in terms of the shop versus website debate is a little reductive. In some ways the online environment allows for smaller niche businesses that can cater to those who would like to purchase goods produced ethically.

     

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  • DP: Sorry haven't time this morning to read all comments. But wanting to add I recently read an article where it suggests th...

  • Merryl Donn: I took the Smile Test and I passed!! This eye cream is amazing. I noticed a reduction in fine lines after three days and...

  • Carolyn: I agree with at least one or two of the statements (and if you'd seen my cousins, you'd be hoping it wasn't that one). T...

  • Kel: You a past Labor member? That's a good one! So presumably you were once concerned about social justice. You railed again...

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