• What relentlessly distressing stories some of the respondents have to tell. Their problems don't sound like they're caused by lack of diagnosis or increased rates of prescription - rather show need for more community support, better training of social workers, police, journos etc. Just wonder how much contact Concerned and others have with parents in similar situations - and if there's some of way of putting you all in touch with each other - if you're interested? - miranda
  • It's OK Sue Bell , John Jay has obviously been " away " again . He craves attention , so if we just ignore him he will no doubt wander back to his " right wing hate sights " like Bolt & Ackerman et al. Meanwhile John Jay , suggest nice cuppa and a lay down . - Carole/m
  • Sly Place has just about said it all on Rudd's narcissism. I'd only add that he can't pretend to be naive about the effect his outbursts have had on Labor. And if it was a former staffer who changed Rudd's mind on gay marriage, pity he didn't listen when the bloke was actually employed in his office. - miranda
  • Does Australia have parent training resources? I've read that parent training is helpful in managing the behaviour. - Rhoda
  • I used to be the type who would sit on top of the heater; freeze to death in winter; and lived in (then) skivvies and jumpers. Then the big M set in!! Now I wander around the house barefoot. I own1 jumper and 1 thick cardigan. The only difference in what I wear to work is I have a raincoat and scarf for winter .... otherwise exactly the same clothes all year around. That's your "internal heater" working for you ... - Schoom
  • I love your rules,especially the one....treat others like you wish to be treated. That was big in our home as I was growing up and it is just as big in my home now. Along with everyday random acts of kindness....if we always live by these two rules then we can be sure to find a real inner happiness.x. - Debyl1
  • I hate no one. I am cruel to no one. I am a mere mortal who The Divine has chosen to speak to. The Divine needs no proof, He is above all human failings. Mock me, it does not hurt, i forgo all pride and sily human comforts. All can read "The Message" and accept it or not. I do not judge. I pass one what i am told. - John Jay
  • Well said Benison. - Sally
  • Dear John Jay, like you I also have had divine revelations, wonderful revelations on the need to love all human kind, on compassion and empathy. The Divine revealed to me that he/she has no interest whatsoever in who has sex with whom. Now let me make it very clear, you cannot prove these divine revelations that you claim you have, no more can I. All you can prove is your unrelenting hatred of anyone who does not subscribe to your very sick philosophies. So Hooplarians, come join me in the "Church of the Unbelievers of John Jay's Divine". Let us be free of his hatred and cruelty. - sue Bell
  • Hmmm, lets hope that John Jay fella doesn't get wind of this! - Will Marshall
 
Categories:  Must see, Wellbeing

MEET THE BITCH-MAKERS

Don’t get me wrong. I love men.

As a young rock and roll groupie I loved lots of men. But over a lifetime of studying men from every angle, I have noticed a very common behavioural peculiarity.

Men tend to do the opposite of what I want them to do.

If I ask them to be faithful, they cheat on me. If I ask them to pick up wet towels, they leave wet clothes on the floor beside the wet towels. If I ask them to pick up a bottle of Shiraz on the way home from work, they arrive with Chardonnay!

It sounds like nit-picking but over time these small acts of rebellion dressed up as forgetfulness or stupidity begin to drive a woman insane. Literally. It’s the ‘leaving-the-toilet-seat-up-on-purpose’ syndrome.

Now, there is science to back up my claim that many men suffer from the disorder known to behavioural scientists as ‘oppositional defiance disorder’.

It’s commonly diagnosed during childhood but I’ve been witnessing it in the significant men in my life for years. And as a professional dispute resolution practitioner, I’m starting to notice it in the office as well.

Jerry Seinfeld once made the claim that ‘men are really nothing more than extremely advanced dogs’ and jokes aside, science has proven that he’s kind of right. Those small acts of defiance against a wife/partner are the result of early programming.

It’s a form of passive aggression. A sneaky way of ‘paying back’ the controlling mother figure.

In the US, three scientists by the names of Baker, Chartrand and Fitzsimons (the latter two being a married couple) conducted a study which determined that many men subconsciously rebel against any request or demand by the one person they perceive as ‘controlling’ or the replacement for a dominant parent from childhood.

In the study, participants were asked to list the significant people in their life and rate them on a scale from submissive to controlling. When given simple requests, the psychologists flashed name cards that were undetectable to the subjects.

It showed that the men in the study subconsciously resisted and indeed often did the exact opposite of requests by the person they most identified as controlling. In many cases this was the wife, sometimes a female boss.

Although this phenomenon was witnessed occurring in both men and women it was overwhelmingly more common in men.

This is passive aggression under the microscope.

In my dispute resolution sessions with couples, passive aggression underlies almost every problem with communication that is vital to a healthy relationship. Key warning signs are…

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31 Responses to this article

  1. Heather September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Goes a little way toward explaining why so many women walk away from marriages these days.

     
  2. FHB September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    You couldn’t for a minute suggest that just maybe, not everything the all knowing wise female wants done, has to be done, then, there and to her requirements.

    The bigger problem is that maybe men are not as aesthetically ingrained as women and don’t care for the exact same result and if this was to be the case, why should she get her own way?

     
    • Ella September 29, 2012 Reply
       
       

      Excusses, excusses!

       
  3. anon. September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    I believe I may have told the other half once or twice that I am the (nagging) person he has turned me into … or maybe I didn’t, maybe I was just passive aggressive right back at him…
    It might also explain why he is supposedly a genius at work but somehow incompetent at home…
    Very interesting article.

     
  4. chomper September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Wow another list!

    Some of the other side:

    1. A reluctance or failure to keep promises. What if the requests/promises require a written list, and are everchanging and unreasonable?

    5. Agreeing to tasks and then postponing them or doing an inadequate job so that someone else has to fix/complete them. See above. Yes a non effective short term solution. Its called “buying time”

    6. Cannot handle any form of criticism. See above

    7. Has difficulty buying gifts for people. Eh? That covers about half the population male and female?

    8. When confronted accuses the other person of ‘being crazy’ or ‘acting crazy’. Crazy is not a good word, but if you keep seeing the above responses, the definition of madness is doing the same think over and over, and expecting a different result .

     
  5. Nikki McWatters September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Hey there Chomper

    Chew on this….

    1. I’m talking simple things like ‘can you pick the kids up from school?’ not some elaborate elastic list of obstacles.

    5. I’m talking wiping down the toilet seat with a tea towel…

    6. I’m talking constructive criticism like ‘tie the garbage bins before popping them in the bin’ not personal attacks.

    7. I’m talking – never even considering buying a present not having difficulty ‘choosing’ a gift.

    8. Interesting. I’m talking about calling someone crazy so that they stop asking/requesting the same things to let the Bitchmaker off the hook!

    Thans for your list, Chomper…’just don’t call me crazy …. .

    Nikki McW

     
    • Carz September 10, 2012 Reply
       
       

      I’m with you Nikki. I was (still am legally) married to a man like that. One who considered his responsibilities in the family started and ended with earning money (something I was precluded from by his choice of job and the requirements of our kids). He was and still is a man whose interests have to take priority over everyone else’s needs, including his kids. Thank you for highlighting this issue. It makes me feel not quite so alone (or even less crazy).

       
  6. The Huntress September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    I really enjoyed this article and it explains A LOT!!! I have a few people to share this with, now.

     
  7. Sybilla September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    I do believe there is some repressed resentment that is a hangover from pre-feminist days. There is still a wide spread feeling among men that the little/boring things are beneath them and they don’t like being asked to participate in such things. Men do tend to do the more pleasant domestic stuff like cooking and gardening and taking the kids to the park while women scrub the pantry and tackle the toilets. For those who say women are picky and perfectionist…I say…why should we lower our standards for male laziness??? Why don’t you find broke guys cleaning people’s houses for $30 an hour when there are thousands of single Mums working their butts off???? If they think that work is beneath them…what does that say????

     
  8. Lydia September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Well, that really does explain a lot! I have always suspected as much, because my husband freely admits he used to do stuff to annoy his mother. For example, he used to drive badly or forget to pick up some item of food on the way home. Guess what? He does the same to me from time to time. How can a man remember the minute details of a 35 page contract he just drafted, but cannot seem to distinguish between a flat white and a cappuccino, when he asked me only 2 minutes previously what I would like? I’ve solved the ‘problem’ by just doing everything myself. But, then, now I’m really becoming a control freak…! Seriously though, my husband had a severe illness a few months back. He was flat on his back for weeks. I did everything (and I do mean everything!), and (surprise surprise), our lives were just fantastic. No arguments. No pass agg rubbish. It was great. Apart from him being ill, that is! It’s clearly not a solution, for the woman to just do everything herself, but it was a ‘circuit breaker’ that was surprisingly good.

     
  9. Lydia September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Oh, yes, I totally agree with you Sybilla, too. I do think there’s resentment. My husband’s mother was pretty feminist and out there, and I work and stuff too. I think that men often don’t like to have to do ‘menial’ things (aka ‘women’s work’) and so ‘forget’ quite a bit to, e.g. clean the toilet….

     
  10. sami September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Ah, this makes me so glad I am in a rational and mature relationship! It’s all give and take and compromise- if it’s only one sided then why stick around?
    Being rebellious to give your other half the shits is immature behaviour. How anyone has the patience to stay with someone like that is beyond me. Better to be single. Or with someone nice.

     
  11. Nikki McWatters September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    You’re lucky sami….There are many wonderful guys out there that don’t feel threatened by a woman and have the confidence to know that to have one of those ‘give and take and compromise’ relationships does nothing to diminish their power or masculinity…only strengthens it.

     
  12. Aeron Winters September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    I was once married to a passive aggressive man…notice I said WAS. That was many years ago now, and I’m happy to say I am married to a wonderful man who is my soul mate. I’m not saying he is perfect, but we can communicate, and that is what makes our marriage work. We both do our bit and don’t sweat the small stuff, and if he forgets something (and it is genuinely forgetting something, not passive aggression) he apologises and it doesn’t happen again. For my part, I accept the apology, because I know it is genuine, and we get on with it. I make mistakes and forget things sometimes too, it would be remiss for me to think he isn’t allowed to forget sometimes too.

     
  13. Ro. Watson September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Thankyou for your thoughtful article~what I am wondering, given your heterosexual focus, is how this does or does not apply to those not heterosexually inclined. I know I flipped into something resembling oppositional defiance after trauma…

     
  14. Nikki McWatters September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    There are plenty of passive aggressive people of all genders and persuasions, cultures and beliefs but you often tend to see them targeting the person they have emotionally set up in place of a dominant parent. That can have been a mother or father or significant authority figure. The targeted person does not have to be the same gender at all. Although they are interchangeable the syndrome has been shown (in many studies) to be more prevalent in the male to female relationship within domestic and work-place settings. There are plenty of shades the crazy-making and it is a pretty common problem.

    Your mention of trauma is interesting….because that can make you angry in ways that are difficult to express and passive aggression is a disorder of the communication of healthy anger.

    Thanks Ro. Hope that helps. x

     
  15. Rhoda September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    I don’t think men ‘link’ the little stuff like we do. It’s a brain thing. Women think holistically – males don’t.

    Let’s face it – males are different to females in more ways than one. Intimacy also has a lot to do with it. How close you are as a couple.

     
  16. Ro. Watson September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Thanks Nikki~for a time I was outright bloody and irrationally angry! but I like the notion that everyone can be irrational sometimes~ so long as safety considerations are met~ for self and others~I am not sure (as I used to be)~ what this actually means in practice~ for a start physical safety~ but the emotional,social and mental life are the fulcrum on which we live our day and night lives…

     
  17. Ro. Watson September 10, 2012 Reply
     
     

    So when is anger “unhealthy”~ given you have set out its disordered components in “healthy” styles of communication~ albeit passive/aggressive~ or have I misunderstood you?!

     
  18. Nikki McWatters September 11, 2012 Reply
     
     

    We’re all a bit passive aggressive sometimes. It’s more of a spectrum disorder that only becomes worrisome when it’s a pattern of behavior. I’m all for a little irrationality now and again. It’s good to be a little spontaneous and unpredictable and maddening in a relationship sometimes but it drives people nuts when you are completely unpredictable most of the time.

    I guess unhealthy anger could be described as anger that creates fear. Healthy anger is displeasure expressed in a safe way. A raised voice is okay but anger that is aggressive rather than simply an expression of frustration is very destructive. Passive aggression is like a pressure cooker that can blow up like an irrational Vesuvius when least expected. Not so good!!!

     
  19. Nicole September 11, 2012 Reply
     
     

    I can see I do a few of these things but the main reason I think my response is not passive agreesive back is because I take it all on myself and blame myself rather than the other person which then still makes me feel crazy. I wonder if this reaction more common in women?

     
  20. Luisa Interdonato September 11, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Finally! This has been scientifically proven. Thank you for this validation. It’s exactly what I needed!!!

     
  21. Anon. 2 September 11, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Great article!
    Nikki – how would an absent (permissive) father and a permissive mother play out in terms of passive aggressiveness?

     
  22. Nikki McWatters September 11, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Hi Anon.
    I have seen this occur and chances are that there was some passive aggression occurring in both parents – father’s absence might have been him playing out his ‘pay back’ anger and mother’s passivity at not enforcing boundaries, the same. In cases like these it may induce learned behaviour in the offspring

    OR sometimes you find that rather than being true passive aggression they are all just suffering from a serious case of genetic apathy and laziness!!!!

     
  23. Amanda September 12, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Wow, my entire marriage just flashed before eyes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I could just about cry with relief. This explains so much. Could you pls suggest some further reading? Can l fix him??

     
  24. Nikki McWatters September 12, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Hi Amanda

    A good place to start reading is

    http://www.angriesout.com/couples8.htm

    It’s a decent overview of the problem.

    Unfortunately no you can’t ‘fix’ him because no-one can ‘fix’ anyone. Oh I wish that we could!!!! You can gently suggest he looks at some of the literature (that one above is good for blokes to read) and often they will recognise themselves. Be prepared for complete denial but if he can see that thousands of people are making the same complains as you….it might be a revelation that you are not a unique psychobitch! Often women will have to accept the problem, see it for what it is and work around it, have no expectations etc. That sounds like the short end of the stick but if you love someone….It’s really up to you how much you are prepared to bend. It’s maddening. I’ve been there myself.
    Best of luck. (You’ll need it!)

     
  25. Mel September 17, 2012 Reply
     
     

    My ex. husband had the symptoms discussed, and I believe it was as a result of three controlling sisters (as he saw it, being the only boy). When we went to relationship councelling before our marriage broke down, the councellor noted that we both had absent fathers. Not sure why that was relevant? Interesting also that my ex. said I was trying to change him, but the councellor explained that we were just trying to get him to do things a little differently. In the end, I realised he was right, he would never change. So the decision was simple, accept him as he is, or move on.

     
  26. Ella September 29, 2012 Reply
     
     

    Great article, thanks for the information, it explains a lot .

    My husband had a mother who did everything for him, and a demanding bully of a father.

    He wouldnt think to do anything around the house or for the children without being asked, so I would ask. He would say “ok” and forget about it, so I had to ask again. When I asked again he said was “negging”, if I didnt ask, it didnt get done.

    He once accused me of being like his father!

    Now he is my ex husband and his mother has to do things for him, but at least Im not stuck with him.

     

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  • miranda: What relentlessly distressing stories some of the respondents have to tell. Their problems don't sound like they're caus...

  • Carole/m: It's OK Sue Bell , John Jay has obviously been " away " again . He craves attention , so if we just ignore him he will n...

  • miranda: Sly Place has just about said it all on Rudd's narcissism. I'd only add that he can't pretend to be naive about the effe...

  • Rhoda: Does Australia have parent training resources? I've read that parent training is helpful in managing the behaviour.

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