MY SON AND THE STRANGER
The other day, my son casually mentioned the man who chatted to him on the bus.
“He told me he went to my school,” he said, “and he asked me about the teachers.”
“Oh really?” I said distractedly, preparing some two minute noodles a gourmet meal for dinner.
“Yeah. And then he asked my name, so I told him, but then he asked what my surname was, and I didn’t say.”
“WHAT?” I spun around. He suddenly had my full attention.
“Yeah, the lady sitting in front of me was listening, and when he asked my surname she looked at me and shook her head, so I said I probably shouldn’t say.”
I felt shaky. I started bombarding my son with questions.
“Did he sit next to you or did you sit next to him?”
“He sat next to me.”
“Did he ask where you live?”
“I don’t think so.”
“Did he follow you off the bus?”
“I don’t think so.”
“Who got off first, you or him?”
“I can’t remember.”
“How can you not remember?”
“I don’t know!”
Eventually I decided that – given my son was safe and well – he probably wasn’t being pursued by a rabid child molester. Still, it was a close call. Anything could have happened.
And then I was confused. Really confused.
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45 Responses to this article
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Matt September 11, 2012
Wow this is a can of worms isn’t it.
Was said stranger merely being friendly asking your son for his surname because he may know you or your husband etc? Was he a sicko?
The sad part is in order to protect our kids we are forced to err on the side of “he’s a sicko” when in fact he may have been simply friendly and harmless.
And after starting to reply I find myself with nothing worthwhile to offer except, I’m glad your son is OK.
A doozy of a question for sure.-
Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
Matt, that’s exactly right. There’s no way of knowing and I think I need to err on the ‘sicko’ side too, which seems tragic, but necessary. AAGGH!
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Cate Pearce September 11, 2012
I would have panicked too, Kez, because I think as sane, reasonable adults, we know it is not normal behaviour to ask a child’s surname. It’s not like your son was lost, or distressed, or seeking help; he was just sitting on the bus, minding his own business. I’m glad that woman was listening in and managed to prevent any further risk.
I talk to strangers too, but not unneccessarily so, and as an adult of advancing years (sigh) I have the level-headedness and experience to quickly assess certain situations and their possible consequences, and adjust accordingly. Kids don’t.
There’s a small valley between fear and trust, and we have to help them negotiate it slowly and surely, so they become confident adults. There’s no single answer on doing it successfully, because every kid and every situation is different.-
Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
Thanks love. I still don’t know the answer, but I am definitely grateful to the woman who intervened. x
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Kellie Warner September 11, 2012
It is a dilemma isn’t it? I often wonder how I will handle the whole stranger danger thing. I want my son to be able to talk to people and not be scared but at the same time be cautious. I read somewhere that you need to tell a child to never ignore their gut feeling or intuition. Even as adults we tend to ignore it having had people tell us over and over again that it is silly. Yet whenever we feel that something isn’t right then it often isn’t. I am a huge crime fiction fan and sometimes read true crime. I remember reading observations once of a top detective who said most victims of attacks/ abductions etc where those that did in fact ignore their inner compass. That is not to blame them at all but he wanted to make people aware that if you feel uncomfortable at all at any time even alone at a bustop then get out of there! I think it is worthwhile telling your son that if he ever feels uncomfortable with what a person is doing or saying then he should stop responding or even move away. I think in this case this woman was probably right to stop your son answering. I think the fact that he brought it up with you means he was probably uncomfortable with it even though he did not say as much. His gut feeling told him it wasnt right which was why he listened to that lady and why he felt the need to tell you. That in itself is good. I understand why you were so freaked out. There are people out there that want to cause harm. They are in the minority but we can’t ignore the fact. It is really tough to strike that balance. I think though the more we talk about it the better.
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Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
I think listening to one’s gut is a very important part of it, but it’s not enough. Think how many kids were abused by paedophiles who were known to, and respected by, their own parents?
SUCH a tough issue!!!! x
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The Huntress September 11, 2012
One thing we often forget is that in the case of child sexual abuse, the abuser is most commonly someone known to the family and often trusted by the family. Strangers abusing kids off the street is quite rare.
But does that mean a free for all? Of course not, to protect children we do need to offer some barriers. This is one of those occasions that I would love to see a return to a slightly more formal society, one where people are taught from a young age how to converse and make small talk with strangers, but without giving away personal information. We can then say yes, it’s ok to chat with a stranger on the bus, but as soon as they start pushing for personal information there would be that definitive crossing of a line – just like it used to be rude to ask someone their age, it could be considered rude to request full names, addresses, schools etc., without a formal introduction (that’s the English in me!) or it would be information that is offered, rather than requested. Following a more formal structure of conversation would give firm grounds for a child to know when someone is asking for too much information and would also give them grounds to point out “it’s not polite to ask where a stranger lives”.
I don’t want to become a society where no-one interacts either, as I certainly enjoy meeting new people and chatting to strangers (and have made many excellent friends because of it). But I also want to know that my son and all other children are safe too. Difficult to answer, I am glad your son is safe and I hope and I hope a way can be found to allow for a friendly society without fear and mistrust.
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Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
Thank you, that’s actually a really interesting point. We are not taught appropriate vs inappropriate communication in this country, because we are such an informal society. Perhaps this has its drawbacks. Hmmm….
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susan September 11, 2012
I think an answer is you now have the opportunity to talk to your son/children about staying safe in the world. We can’t be with our children all the time but I think we can help them learn to develop their own judgement about situations. I’ve talked to my son about things like this, it’s something I should talk to him about again as he’s older again. You could roleplay situations your son could come across in his day and see what his response is and go from there.
I think protecting his identity and to resist the automatic response ingrained in children to do what an adult tells them to do (except if they’re a parent or caregiver) is a really good start. -
Lydia September 11, 2012
Oh, Kerri, what a difficult situation. I would have to say that your antennae were quite rightly up, though. It’s a bit difficult to understand exactly why a stranger on a bus would need to ask a child’s surname – to find out where they live? To find out where you (or other members of your family) live? It sounds odd to me, and really not innocent chit chat at all. How often do we find a reason to ask such things, when we are chatting on the bus? Maybe if you think you (or someone you know) went to school with the person? Maybe then? But asking a child??! No, I’d err on the side of ‘sicko’ with that one.
A few years ago, my husband came home from work and told me that some young Aboriginal boys were befriended by an older bloke on the bus on the way home. He said that the boys were clearly a bit ‘wayward’ – a couple of them quite young indeed to be out and about on their own. He saw the man get off the bus at the same time as them. My blood ran cold. He said he felt queasy, but he didn’t intervene as it was broad daylight and a busy time of day. I know he has often wondered whether he did the right thing by not intervening in some way. He said: ‘well, what could I have done?? Got off the bus too and followed them??’. There are no easy answers.
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Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
Oh LORD. I don’t have an answer to that one either Lydia. Oy.
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Juliet September 11, 2012
I agree Kellie. My father (and a few uncles and an aunt) were police officers, and growing up the one clear piece of advice was to ‘trust your gut’, If it feels wrong, it is wrong, and remove yourself from the situation.Keeping the rules simple makes them easier to remember in an unfamiliar situation. Make sure your children know they can contact you at any time to remove them from a situation where they don’t feel comfortable. Better to overreact than under-react.
The Morcombe Family is doing great things in Queensland to help children keep themselves safe. You can follow this link to see the Ed Qld curriculum regarding child safety: http://www.danielmorcombe.com.au/
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Mrs Sabbatical September 11, 2012
Crikey Kerri I would have been stressed also. Does it highlight that we cant help but be distrustful of everyone (I know my husband has hesitated helping a hurt kid in the playground because he doesnt want someone to minterpret the action). We are a very open society which is great but I think your son & the lady in from we’re right to keep it polite, keep info to a minimum, be aware & trust your instincts, kids can be pretty intuitive. x
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Pamela September 11, 2012
I think as many people have said, there is no valid reason for this man to be asking your son for his surname. What you have to look at is that no-one would ask a boy on his own on a bus, their surname, because they would know that could be construed as being too personal. I think you need to take some preventative action to make sure this doesn’t happen again. Perhaps make sure your son travels with a buddy from now on and that someone defintiely sees him onto the bus and meets him when he gets off. Sorry, but that is the world we live in.
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Jenny M September 11, 2012
How fabulous of that lady sitting nearby and taking an interest and assisting your boy to make the right decsion, simply by shaking her head. That lady probably watched your son get off the bus safely, let us all be reminded how much we can all do to assist young and vulnerable members in our community by simply taking an interest and watching from a distance to ensure everything is OK. I have often watched people in public spaces and alerted authorities when I suspected inappropriate behaviour for example when I spotted a man working at a carnival last summer taking covert photos of young girls in shorts and mini skirts. Nothing wrong with talking to strangers, just never ever go with a stranger or give them your surname & address.
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Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
Agree, I was so very grateful to her. I think we all have a responsibility as members of society to look out for each other, and I’m glad she was looking out for my son that day – whatever the man’s actual intentions were.
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JessB September 11, 2012
What a great comment Jenny M, you’re so right! By everyone living together in a community and taking care of each other, we do our best to make sure that everyone is safe.
Kerri, I recall watching a movie based on a true story, Changeling, where a grown man used a boy to reassure other children and convince them to get in a car with them. There was not a happy ending, but I’ll never forget the shot of the little boy at a police interview table saying that kids wouldn’t get in a car with just a man alone, but they would if another kid was there, thinking ‘that kid’s safe, I’ll be safe too’. Sadly, none of the kids were safe, not those lured into the car, nor the little boy who was bait.
I think yo’ve done the right thing with your son, teaching him it’s nice to be friendly, but there is a line we draw with strangers.
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Kim- Reunite Child Assist September 11, 2012
I loved reading this and it is thoughts I have had many times. I am always talking to people and encouraging my children not to be so shy. No surnames and no address, I agree, BUT we teach our kids these things, we pummel them into them as a safety net should they get lost, lose us, or need help……Where is the line? Kerri, I am with you on the “confusion” part of this. How is any of it clear?
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Kerry C September 11, 2012
As many others have said, asking a child his surname is definitely inappropriate.
If I’m sitting next to a school-aged child on the bus, I usually smile at them – that is all. I do myself, keep an eye on kids on buses without their parents, as I would hope most people would. As a parent and a granny of 2 small girls, if I had heard the man ask for the little boy’s surname, I would have probably done more than just shake my head.
It would be interesting to know if bus drivers are trained to deal with a situation like this?
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Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
I have no idea but I’d be interested to know too. Bus drivers deal with kids all day and must regularly see some sticky situations so presumably have been briefed on appropriate reactions???
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susan September 11, 2012
Jenny M, I agree. Taking an interest and being observant and involved is important.
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Libbi Gorr September 11, 2012
OK Kerry – Here’s my story:
A guy at the airport lounge leaned over the back of the seats
as we were waiting for our call to board and gave each of my kids a jelly snake.What did I do? Did I lean over the back of the chair and kind of apologized, and said
F*%$ off Pervert. No I didn’t. I’ve mellowed since that time in Westfield.
Reeling from Life: Episode 31625
LIBBI: Excuse me Sir. I understand you were being lovely, but I have to say – this is kind of awkward, as a Mum who always says to her kids..Best not accept lollies from Strangers.
KIND MAN: “Oops. I know. I’ve fucked up. I knew as soon as I did it I’d fucked up”:
KIND MAN’S SON ( AS A HECKLE): My old man the pervert!LIBBI: You haven’t fucked up in total – I don’t question your kind heart. Perhaps you could’ve tapped me on the shoulder and said..” Mummy? I have some extra Lollies. May I offer your kids a snake?”
And I would’ve said : Sure, If I can have one too”.KIND MAN: Thanks. Yes. Isn’t this a sad situation.
MY SON: Mummy? I don’t want my snake.
LIBBI: ( TO SON). Good. I’ll have it. ( To Man) Kind of, yes. Are you on this plane? I think that’s our call.
We all board plane to Melbourne.
Not every snake offer concerns a trousers , but isn’t it a wild old world where we are constantly on the lookout for them?
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Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
Libbi…
YES. It’s a crazy world. Perfect story to sum it up.
Snakes on a plane! (almost….) x
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Catherine Rodie Blagg @CoTaaB September 11, 2012
I’m from London and when I first moved to Sydney I loved the fact that people were so friendly. I have no answers for you, it is something I’m still mulling over myself.
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Ness September 11, 2012
You’ve opened this can of worms for me right when my son is away at camp for the first time, and I didn’t have the stranger danger chat with him before he went as I didn’t want to scare the bejesus out of him (and me!). So hard. We tend to be overly paranoid and always take and pick them up from school. I see a lot of other kids walking home by themselves. That would freak me out. Don’t know what the answer is either, other than the trust your gut thing. It certainly is odd for a stranger to ask a child’s name. Eeek. Thank god for that lady, and glad your son is ok.
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Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
Thanks Ness. I’m sure your son will do great at camp x
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Connie September 11, 2012
I too err on the side of caution with my daughter – telling her repeatedly that she should always trust her gut feelings. I think it’s also essential to constantly talk to your children and keep the lines of communication open so they know they can talk to you about anything and everything (lucky for me that mine is a chatty little thing).
Simple things can help – don’t have your kids full name on their school bag where it can be easily seen (have it written on the area that goes against their back), make sure they know who their ‘safe’ people are and have a ‘secret’ password in case someone else ever needs to collect them. We have enrolled ours in Tae Kwon Do mainly for self confidence and the awareness of different situations and how to react. I don’t want her growing up being fearful of strangers (I met one of my very best friends chatting on the bus) but a healthy respect for what’s appropriate conversations with people she doesn’t know is my aim. I’ve gone with the approach that someone who knows her or me wouldn’t ask personal details including her name – they’d know and she should only give her name to a police officer if she’s in trouble – treating personal details exactly the same way we do on the internet and in line with her school’s cybersafety quidelines.
As my husband will attest, I love people and will talk to anyone but that said I would never speak to a child travelling alone on the bus – I wouldn’t want to be responsible for making them feel uncomfortable. I walk my dog to meet my daughter off the bus every afternoon and am a little alarmed at the number of children from the local primary school, on their own, who stop and start talking to me and asking to pat the dog – I’m a stranger! I politely refuse, explaining that to him they are a stranger. -
Janet Georgouras September 11, 2012
A good rule to follow might be for parents introducing the French concept of ‘tu’ and ‘vous’.
Both these terms are used to address people, however, ‘tu’ is used for those whom one knows well and ‘vous’ is used for those who we do not know well.
A stranger who asks personal questions of a child while they are alone, such as those about family, name or school could be seen by the child or another adult as breaching social boundaries.
It might also help adults to know what might cause concern or discomfort in a child.
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Carli September 11, 2012
My almost four year old has an awful habit of telling anyone who’ll listen both his name and his surname. He will often stand at the porch and yell out “hello” to people on bikes, in cars, on skateboards – I’ve tried to explain he doesn’t need to say hello to everyone but being three that’s enough to cause an argument “I DO need to say hello to everyone!!”.
It’s sad that we have to start introducing stranger danger but for me it’s more important teaching my kids to learn and trust their own instincts.
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Jules September 11, 2012
I got goosebumps reading this. Thinking how many times, even as an adult, I have had a conversation and come away thinking, maybe I shouldn’t have revealed that. In an adult child ‘predator’ situation, the adult has a myriad of ways to manipulate information out of a child. There is just no way to make a child see this without completely overwhelming them. So what can they go on – gut instinct. I think your son is a star, first to pick up on the situation enough to seek the input of the lady, and secondly to discuss it with you. Woder what was the reaction of the man when the lady encouraged him not to reveal details and your son said no.
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amd September 11, 2012
I cannot imagine any situation where some passing stranger would legitimately enquire about the surname of a child on a bus. We have a family password. And when my son was 12 (he is now 15) he was asked online for his address on Xbox live. He said “I don’t feel comfortable sharing that information with you” and blocked them. He would not have done that if I had not drilled such things into him.
Here is what Bruce and Denise Morecombe’s have to say:
“Our son Daniel did not get a second chance. His legacy is that you can learn from this tragic event and make sure it does not happen again. Daniel has given you that second chance.
1. When you can, stay with a friend. Even if you have a fight with your mate, don’t go off alone.
2. Be observant. Notice who’s around you and what they’re doing.
3. Have a family password. Something like your favourite food – lasagne, for example. If a person says they are meant to pick you up, test them on the password.
4. With your parents, make a list of 5 adults you trust. If you ever feel uneasy about anybody or anything, tell one of these people and know you won’t get into trouble. If you feel you’re not being listened to, try someone else.
5. Don’t share information about yourself, like your hobbies or the name of your school with people you don’t know, online or in real life.
6. If something feels wrong, it probably is. Trust the butterflies in your stomach – they could be a sign something’s not right.
7. It’s okay to run and scream if you feel threatened. Safety is more important than good manners.”
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Kerri Sackville September 11, 2012
Thank you amd. Made me cry to read that, but so important.
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amd September 11, 2012
Me too. I am hoping to see them speak in person in October, and I think we will all be taking tissues.
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Calloway Luddington September 11, 2012
There was a man who lived in our neighbourhood called Desmond. He was unmarried and lived with his aunt. Every evening he’d return from work, and within minutes all the local kids would leap on our bikes and scooters and head over to ride on his extra long driveway. It was the smoothest concrete ever poured, and we’d do laps until our mothers started the evening chorus of dinner coo-ees.
Desmond would sit by the driveway, with lollies, soft-drinks and band-aids. He’d play referee in the inevitable squabbles, but never resorted to reprimanding, or sending anyone home. When the little ones (I was one of these) became exhausted from our grand-prix, we’d go and sit with him, on his lap if there was still room, and he’d chat with us. He would listen so attentively, as though my inane 6 year old yammering was utterly compelling.
We all adored Desmond – and he was just a very kind man who loved kids, and had the patience of Job.
I find it a little heart-breaking that most kids today will never have a Desmond in their lives. And I feel so sad for the beautiful Desmonds who are too scared to be themselves.-
Kerri Sackville September 12, 2012
I hear you about Desmond, I do, but for every Desmond there is a priest or a family friend or a teacher who everyone trusted, and who turned out to be a bad dude. I wouldn’t let my kids go to Desmond’s house unaccompanied.
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lindgy September 11, 2012
The Safe Child Book, by Sherryll Kraiser should be compulsory reading for every parent about making children safe and think, not afraid and immobilised
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Fern September 11, 2012
On the other hand, I have taught my daughter to recite our address in response to the “where do you live?” question, as she is 4 and autistic, with such limited verbal ability, that if she were to wander off, she would be otherwise unable to provide any personal details to someone trying to help her. And yes, I have wondered if this puts her at greater risk, but ultimately I felt her chance of coming across a caring stranger was higher than her chance of coming across a potential abuser.
In relation to the man on the bus, it was highly inappropriate for him to ask that question and I think you’re right to teach your son not to give out that kind of personal information. However, it’s good not to freak out too much – there could have been ill-intent but there’s also a huge number of people out there living with various mental and physical disorders that limit their abilities to understand and follow social conventions. I’m sure we’ve all meet strangers on public transport (I certainly have) who chronically over-share or ask inappropriate questions or seem to have no interior monologue – whatever they’re thinking just pops right out. So that stranger danger vs trusting humankind thing? I think those suggestions about teaching appropriate social communication with strangers will give your son confidence and teaching him the various reasons someone might talk to him that way helps balance the awareness of danger with a broader view of humanity.
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mummaducka September 11, 2012
Here’s my take on this. i live in a fairly small community where we all know each other. I know that there are predators out there who know who my kids are (they are a wee bit famous!) and know exactly where we live. So it is up to me to educate and protect my children and make sure that they are NEVER EVER unsupervised or in an unsafe situation. There is always an opportunist just waiting to pounce- no matter where or who you are. I have taught them everything I know, and NSW DEC has made sure that I am well trained in Child Protection. Sorry, but, you can just never be too careful, this is one area I would rather be over prepared with rather than suffer the consequences of not!
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Roni Jean September 19, 2012
My two children have asperger syndrome. When my son was 4 years old, his home day-carer of 3 years told me that she could no longer look after him. She told me that he would often disappear from her side in busy shopping centres and she would find him happily chatting to elderly men, and for the sake of her sanity and nerves, she had decided she could not take care of him any longer. I have dilligently taught my children about stranger danger, but at the same time, I’ve taught them to be compassionate towards other people, and to not assume the worst in them all the time.
Today, as my now 17 and 18 year old children accompanied me in the car to the shopping centre, we noticed an elderly gentleman sitting beside a very busy road leading into the centre. His cane was propped beside him and he appeared to be in some discomfort. It wasn’t possible to stop on the narrow, busy road, so I continued to the car park just a short distance away, and parked the car.
My 18 year old daughter said, “Do you think we should go and see if he’s ok?” before heading off on foot with her 17 year old brother in the direction of where we saw the man. I drove the car back out of the car park and met my children coming back, but on such a busy road, I couldn’t stop to ask them what had transpired between them and the gentleman. I continued on and found the man still in the same spot, so I parked the car on the concrete shoulder of the road, got out and walked over to the man. I was horrified when he abruptly stood up, and shuffle out onto the road, right into the path of oncoming traffic! Cars jolted to a stop on both sides as the man, seemingly oblivious to the danger, continued to shuffle to the other side of the road.
The cars waited patiently for him to cross, and then for me to cross also to where he now was. “Excuse me,” I said to him, “do you need a lift somewhere?” He replied, “Yes, that would be lovely, thank you.” I took his arm and walked slowly along the road to where my car was parked, The traffic followed slowly and patiently behind us. His house was quite a way away and I wondered how such a frail man had managed to get himself all the way down to the shopping centre in the first place.
As we chatted on the drive to his house, I mentioned that the two teenagers that had spoken to him were my children. He then explained to me that while they were both very polite, he declined their offers of help because, “You just never know with teenagers these day, what they’re capable of. I was a bit wary of them.” Apparently, stranger danger goes both ways.
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Sarah September 28, 2012
One approach, which I use, is to reinforce what my children are taught in Child Protection Education at school (primary & high).
I think children have a better chance of keeping safe if they are getting the message they are taught at school, reinforced at home.
http://www.curriculumsupport.education.nsw.gov.au/primary/pdhpe/safe/cpe.htm
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Gayle October 2, 2012
It is a terrible dilemma – my 11 year old grandson is just such an outgoing people person – who loves to smile and talk to EVERYONE. How do I explain to him it might not be best to crack his gorgeous smile at blokes and say G’day Mate? I have only just allowed myself to let him go the men’s toilet when we go out and I always say ” straight in and straight out and don’t talk to ANYONE” and then I stand outside the door. You might think I am being paranoid but then a year or so ago, on Christmas Eve, I caught a guy definitely giving him the eye over even though he had all our family with him. i stared the creep down but he just gave a smirk and a shrug and walked away. Yes thanks be for the lady on the bus and your son’s respect for her silent advice.
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Julie Thomson October 2, 2012
I am so glad I grew up in the 60s and had my kids in the 80s before this paranoia of children being stalked by every friendly adult set in. I know circumstances have brought much of his exaggerated fear about ,but can we all be sensible about the likelihood of your child being “interviewed” for abduction or worse by an adult on a bus! One of my lasting pleasurable memories was hearing my mother recount the stories of her chats with kids and adults alike on public transport. She discovered all sorts of people and family coincidences and encouraged us to be likewise curious and interested in the human race. I have used this connectedness to great advantage in my journalism career and also in my personal and social life. So many dull souls live in a bubble and are rearing kids to be the same; self-centred, self-interested, self-serving and plugged in only to earphones as they go about their day. They can talk heaps about themselves, but can scarcely ask a question about anyone else they meet, or form any interested thoughts about another’s life. Ah well. Their loss!
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Elizabeth October 3, 2012
I volunteered with a soup kitchen for a few months and through friends. I got to meet some of the greatest people I’d ever met…complete strangers who would say hi or even invite you in and talk footy or war or just about you. I wouldn’t trade it…but strangers on buses are strangers on buses.
I gave a lift to a guy who was in town for the (something) and saw him again about a month afterwards…he’d told me he’d be in town overnight just in conversation. I know picking up hitchers is dumb, stupid and a recipe for disaster but I did it and I’ve done it before. Today I saw the guy, who I know is from out of town, at the bus stop after the last bus. He said hi. Am I paranoid…I was genuinely afraid for an instant and I had to think twice about the route I took home.-
Elizabeth October 3, 2012
To qualify that….I don’t know that you can ever trust anything but your judgement.
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