vaccinate

SCIENCE SAYS VACCINATE!

The science is in. Actually, the science was in decades ago but a hysterical minority hijacked it and has held the issue to ransom ever since.

Not for very much longer.

After patiently waiting for good sense to prevail on the matter of vaccinating children (sadly, to no avail), doctors and scientists are fighting back: today they launch a campaign targeting parents who refuse to immunise their children.

 

The science is in: Doctors launch a campaign urging parents to vaccinate their children.

 

It’s frightening that the number of these parents has, according to ABC news, increased six-fold in recent time. It’s frightening for public health, and it’s frightening for public intelligence.

Because the facts are incontrovertible: immunisation prevents disease. Vaccinations all but wiped out infectious disease that once killed and disabled small children, but a growing band of misinformed “anti-vaxers” have put our public health at risk.

Not just the health of their own children, but yours and mine too.

“It is of concern,” says Australian Academy of Science president Suzanne Cory, “That there are these pockets of conscientious objection to vaccination that are growing and I don’t think people understand that they’re not just choosing for their own family, they’re putting at risk the wider community.”

Do you remember the tragic case of Dana McCaffery, the four week-old Lennox Head baby who died from whooping cough in 2010? Too young to be immunized, she caught the deadly bacteria in Northern NSW, an area infamous for its low immunisation rates.

Today the Australian Academy of Science, supported by the Australian Medical Association, presents the science in easy, accessible language in a booklet that drives home the importance of immunising children.

Written by Professor Ian Frazer, the booklet brings together Australia’s top immunologists who were “concerned about confusion created by contradictory information about immunization.”

Academy president Suzanne Cory says: “Vaccination is incredibly important for our society to keep us free of infectious diseases.

“You just have to think back to the early days of Australia and look in the cemeteries and see how many young children died of infectious diseases before we had these wonderful vaccines and before we had antibiotics.”

And that may be part of the problem – the vaccination program could be a victim of its own success: people don’t see the death and disease and perhaps become complacent about taking part in the coordinated effort to fight it.

There is also the issue of misguided fear and confusion around side-effects.

As prominent immunologist Sir Gustav Nossal (pictured right, image via abc.net.auwrites at The Punch today, “It’s true that side effects do exist – but they are generally trivial. It is also true that serious side effects happen but they are vanishingly rare – occurring in only about one in a million vaccinations.

“Despite claims to the contrary, the risk-benefit equation is overwhelmingly in favour of vaccination.”

Vaccines are without a doubt, he says, “history’s most cost-effective public health tool.”

Some of the fear-mongering about vaccinations can be traced back to a medical paper – since discovered to be fraudulent – that made news around the world in 1998 when a British medical researcher made claims that vaccines were linked to the incidence of autism in the community.

These “findings” took moments to hit the headlines and then took years to be discredited. In the interim the fools rushed in and perpetuated the myths, and so much damage has been done to public perception about vaccinations.

In a recent edition of Media Watch, host Jonathan Holmes took his fine scalpel to media coverage of the issue, and suggested that in an effort to be balanced the media had, over the years, given commensurate airtime to the anti-vaxers. Just to get both sides of the story.

But overwhelming scientific evidence does not have equal weight with unfounded scaremongering.

You may note that this whole article has been written without mentioning Australia’s foremost anti-vaxer, who has been given far too much media coverage in this country over the years.

Hopefully now it’s sinking in: her untenable position doesn’t doesn’t deserve the oxygen.

 

To get the facts about immunisation from Australia’s top scientists in the field, you can go the Australian Academy of Science website here.

 

 

MORE ARTICLES BY LUCY CLARK

Rape Pregnancy: “God’s Will”

“I Wanna Be a Babe”

Mary Robinson. How to Change the World

 

*Lucy (Editor of The Hoopla) is a journalist and editor with almost thirty years experience in newspapers and magazines in Sydney, London, and New York. She has been published in The Sydney Morning Herald, The Australian, The Daily and Sunday Telegraphs, Vogue Living, Australian Art Review, and Gourmet Traveller. Most recently the Books Editor of the Sunday Telegraph, she has also contributed to the non-fiction books, Australia Through Time, and What Women Want. You can follow her on Twitter: @lucykateclark.

 

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84 Comments

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Nan

    There are far too many idiots in the anti-vaxer camp screaming ‘what has science ever done for us!’. Today I’ll get my 4.5 month old daughter vaccinated, there will be tears, there will be grumpiness, but rather that than expose her to the idiocy of others ‘beliefs’ (and it is just that, go get some cold hard facts backed up with double blind experiments and I might actually listen.)

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Pam Harrison

    The anti vac phenomena is like a group hysteria. Incredible rejection of science and lack of perspective about the big picture.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Emily

    I have always struggled to understand why the government perpetuated this – there used to ba a ‘vaccination payment’ that you received once your child was fully immunised – about $200. But, if you signed a statement to say that you were a conscientious objector, they would send you the payment anyway! It seemed ludicrous to hold out the payment as an incentive, and then just give it to everyone anyway.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    The Huntress

    Great article! Having recently moved from ward nursing to practice nursing I spend a considerable part of my days immunising children. Thankfully I have not had to deal with conscientious objectors yet, but I do make it clear to parents what the alternatives to immunisation are. Of course I am honest about side effects, but as stated in the article they are often trivial with serious side effects being incredibly rare. We can fight disease with immunisation and in some cases even wipe it out. We are so close to eradicating polio, which is so exciting! Immunise and save lives!

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Dr Linda

    I worry about those non-vaccinated children- in Australia, herd immunity (a high enough percentage of immunes in a community to prevent epidemics) protects many children here. Fast forward the the late teens and early twenties- many of those unvaccinated children will travel and especially backpack, to areas of the world where diseases such as hepatitis and polio are endemic. They will be hoplessly vulnerable to severe or fatal disease. And if there is one thing more serious than tetanus- its tetanus in the developing world, where treatment may be inadequate or non-existent. Think about that next time you buy travel insurance- your fees will be subsidising medi-vacs of desperately ill, unvaccinated young adults from developing nations to Australia.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Vinny in Synny

    I’ve heard of anti vac parents who were obsessive about the keeping up the vaccinations for their dogs but not doing the same for their children…

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Kerry C

    When my kids were little, unless I could show the vaccination certificates, they were not permitted to start school – this was mid 1980s (in NSW).

    Is that not still in force? if not, why not? Fairly effective I would have thought. No needles, no school. In fact, it should be enforced at pre-school levels also.

    It takes only 1 non-vaccinated child to spread disease – other kids take it home to new born babies in their homes, to elderly grandparents etc. My husband and I recently had a whooping cough booster as we were travelling to Switzerland to see our new baby grand-daughter who, at 3 months, did not have her own antibody buildup.

    • Reply November 26, 2012

      Aeron Winters

      I don’t understand it either Kerry C. My daughter started school in 2000 and until I showed the record of her vaccinations being up to date she was not allowed to start. I don’t know when the rules changed, but it is a very scary situation for all of us.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    I totally disagree. You have fallen hook, line and sinker to the crap peddled by Big Pharma. Have a look at the origins of the Pharmaceutical companies. It’s called I.G. Farben. Google it and you will be horrified.

    The drop in infections is to do with cleaner water, better sanitation and these type of societal improvements.

    Have a look at the real statistics of what goes wrong when children and adults have an adverse reaction. The Deaths linked to the Cervical cancer immunisation is a very good example. Immunisation is to do with one thing… money.

    How do you explain why illnesses such as Autism, cancer etc are on the rapid increase.

    Ray Moynihan (on Richard Fidler ABC recently) clearly showed what is really behind these sort of public statements…. the Big Pharmaceutical companies. The fraud going on in thye background is simply staggering.

    Moynihan has spent a lifetime studying the fraud of Big Pharma and the Medical profession. (or what is described as the “Sickness Industry). Listen to Ray’s research, which has been published in many prestigious medical journals and you will be shocked.

    Talk to Elaine Hollingsworth at the Hippocraties Center on the Gold Coast.

    I hear the constant statement (also being used by some daycare centers to bar unvaccinated children). The public (and other students) are at risk from unvaccinated children. This a simple admission that vaccination doesn’t work. How can the vaccinated public and children, be at risk from unvaccinated children, if vaccination gives protection?.

    If the medical profession has done such great things for society, why did the QLD Health Minister admit 3 weeks ago, that the cost of healthcare will consume the ENTIRE QLD budget by 2030?

    If I had stayed with the sickness industry my leukaemia would have killed me 9 years ago. I too have researched what is going on and I stay alive by….. keeping away from Doctors…..

    • Reply November 26, 2012

      vanessay

      Thomas Brookes: The rise in the incidence of autism has more to do with the understanding of autism as a spectrum disorder which presents in many ways. It is a result of a better understanding of autism not a rise in autism as such. There is absolutely no scientific basis to the belief that vaccinations cause autism; just because two events occur at the same time does not mean one event caused another. Any honest person with an autistic family member will tell you that differences were apparent long before vaccinations were given.
      Ray Moynihan is an experienced journalist, not a scientist. He has presented his argument and found points of view to match his, this is not the way scientific research is conducted, this is the way people sell books. Elaine Hollingsworth is an actress and writer, her previous name was Sara Shane, again, not a scientist.
      You must understand, surely, that anyone can publish anything on the internet and in a book.
      Lastly, the BIg Pharma argument is baseless. People who work as scientists and researchers and doctors are NOT involved in a world wide conspiracy to poison our children. Do you have any idea how many people this would involve, even if you were just talking about Australia? These people are people and parents just like us.
      I have a granddaughter, she has autism. She is fully immunized and her classmates in the special unit at school are also fully immunized. Do you know what it be like for a child already challenged by the world to get whopping cough?
      I am tired of all this fear mongering about autism and vaccination. My granddaughter is seven and she has autism. She is the light of all our lives and we wouldn’t have missed a minute of the experience of having her in our family. Every time people such as yourself “play the autism card” in arguments like this you hurt many families out there by presuming to tell us that our kids are “damaged”.
      I am glad you did not come in contact with someone with whooping cough while your immune system was compromised by leukaemia because it probably would have killed you. That is why we need to immunize as many people as we can because it protects the newborns and people who are already suffering other illnesses. Sorry for the rant and thanks, at least for not bringing up Meryl Dorney, although I am sure she, or one of her acolytes will make an appearance soon.

    • Reply November 26, 2012

      Jenny

      Thomas, I don’t know how old you are, but it seems that you have not seen the widespread effects of an epidemic. I have and I would never want to see it again. We had a sanitorium full of tuberculosis patients, a rehab hospital full of people recovering from poliomyelitis, too many babies born severely damaged by German measles which was caught by their mothers while pregnant; schools had frequent epidemics of ordinary measles which can be a very serious illness with severe complications. I can continue with mumps, chickenpox. I didn’t see whooping cough as it had been almost eliminated by the vaccination programs, but I heard about it. None of these diseases are water-borne. They are mainly transmitted by droplet infection from person to person. They were flourishing long after our very good public health improvements had been instituted. Admittedly, the provision of clean water and efficient sewerage had great positive effects on public health, but not including the diseases covered by immunisation. When I was a small child we were routinely immunised against tetanus, whooping cough, and diphtheria – I can recall no occurrences of these three deadly diseases in immunised people in my lifetime.

      I grant you that there have been occasions when reaction to the antigens have occurred, but only ever one occasion which was serious throughout my 50-odd years of nursing career. But I have lately heard of worrying illnesses in children who have NOT been immunised. The risks involved in not immunising far outweigh those risks involved in continuing to give antigens to all young children.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    louise

    What gets me about this debate is we focus on immunising children but never on adults.
    All the adults who are engaging in this debate need to ask themselves when was the last time they got a booster injection for any of the infectious diseases we are talking about.
    We need to get some perspective on this.
    And yes we need to do this to protect other children but does anyone ever ask why a new born baby needs a Hep B injection. When I looked in to the WHO fact sheet on this I certainly did.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    FerrylBerryl

    Hey Thomas – ever heard of Hib? How has sanitation and water improved since the 90’s

    Also, if you beat Cancer using herbs and voodoo please report to your nearest immunologist immediately because you are a modern medical marvel, 100% unique in the history of mankind and you should be studied for science.

    Lastly, if you can’t even comprehend the varying levels of immune response amongst the 7 billion people on earth to varying illness’ and vaccinations then you know literally (and I mean literally in the literal sense here) NOTHING about immunology or basic biology and you are in NO position to lecture anyone on vaccinations.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Benison O'Reilly

    As the mother of a child with autism, medical writer, and the author of a best-selling book about autism I have studied the science of childhood vaccinations much more closely than most. Nothing I have read in the 8 years I’ve immersed myself in the topic has given me cause to reassess my pro-vaccination views.

    I am heartened that the commenters here are – apart from the occasional garden variety anti-vaxxer spouting conspiracy theories – in favour of vaccinating.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Rhoda

    From World Health Organization

    As I understand it.

    Measles vaccination resulted in a 74% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2010 worldwide when vaccination programs were accelerated. People still die of measles every day but as I understand it some countries don’t have a vaccination program in place.

    Polio cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated 350 000 cases then, to 650 reported cases in 2011. The reduction is the result of the global effort to eradicate the disease.

    Polio vaccination is dear to my heart as I was in hospital for many months in an infectious diseases ward back in the 60s and a young girl my age with polio was in the bed next to me. She was totally paralyzed and would cry now and again because she would get a crick in her neck or something. I would call for the nurse who would come and make her comfortable again. That poor dear girl has remained in my memory every since. If you didn’t grow up in that era you won’t remember the children who walked about in calipers after contracting this disease. Some never recovered from total paralysis.

    Pertussis or whooping cough. I was alerted to this by my doctor a few months ago who had reason to test me for the disease. Thankfully I didn’t have it but she said it was on the increase here and very hard to shake once you get it.

    Estimates from WHO suggest that, in 2008, about 16 million cases of pertussis occurred worldwide, 95% of which were in developing countries, and that about 195 000 children died from the disease.

    Just a few diseases that vaccination programs are trying to eliminate.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    mangosan

    it only takes a little look back to the past in my family history to find a very sad tale regarding life before immunisation. When my grandfather was in his 50’s he married for the second time. His 2nd wife was a little strange and as she was of the same generation and appeared to have no family we just we took little notice of her behavior just considering that she was a little eccentric.
    However when she passed away my grandfather told us of her previous life. She had married young…and lost both of her daughters and her husband to Diphtheria over a 5 year period. immunisation would have saved their lives if it had been available then

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Gemma D

    Hi Thomas

    You have fallen into the classic trap of Causation vs Correlation. In other words “A happened, B happened, therefore A causes B”. I think this is one of the most commonly used arguments for poorly evidenced ideas, and it is disappointing to see so many people fall into this trap.

    An example is an ad I saw in the newspaper recently that argued that exercise won’t help you lose weight. The “logic” was that Australians exercise more than ever before, and we are more overweight than ever before, therefore exercise is making us fat (and we should all buy X-waste-of-money-supplement). Clearly this is a flawed argument, based on correlation rather than causation.

    The idea that Autism and Cancer are on the increase as a result of vaccination is just ridiculous. Just because there is a correlation between these things doesn’t mean they have a causal relationship. Maybe it is exercise that causes autism and cancer; I hear that is on the increase too. Or the number of cars on the road, the amount of coffee consumed on average, our use of the internet – maybe ALL these things cause cancer and autism and should be eradicated from our lives. Once again, this is correlation NOT causation.

    Cancer is on the increase for a range of reasons. The World Cancer Research Fund International publishes the best evidence on cancer prevention and treatment. We know that some of the causes of cancer include smoking, excess alcohol consumption, being overweight, being physically inactive, excess consumption of processed meats (particularly bowel cancer), excess consumption of salt (particularly stomach cancer) and insufficient fruit and vegetable consumption. These factors are independent of one another and based on extensive evidence from decades of research conducted worldwide. Want more info? http://www.wcrf.org/cancer_research/cup/recommendations.php

    So please, Thomas (and everyone), when you read an article please make sure you are looking at a credible source of information, and watch for these kinds of flawed-logic arguments; as they tell us SO MANY LIES. Some are quite cleverly crafted, so the logic makes sense, but just because an argument sounds logical, doesn’t mean it is true fact.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    dramaqueen75

    I am a teacher and have had many colleagues off on sick leave – some for as long as a whole term (10-12 weeks) after contacting Whooping Cough from kids at school were were not immunised. A friend who was blacking out when she had a fit of coughing and broke a rib coughing said it was the worse thing she had experienced in her life.

    She had been immunised as a child but, like most of us, hadn’t had a booster shot – these are available to educators and child care workers who work with kids 12 months and younger but not to those of us in Primary and High Schools.

    The areas that have the highest numbers of un-immunised kids seem to be those with a mix of affluence and middle class angst! It does my head in.

    Another friend’s baby caught whooping cough and was so dreadfully ill we nearly lost her.

    If the level of “immunity in the community” drops too low the rate of contamination goes up. Some people just need to get over the “first world problem / middle class angst”, stop thinking that just because they can read and “looked stuff up on the interment” that they are in any way qualified to have an informed opinion on vaccination and appreciate that greater minds than ours have already done the science and the longitudinal studies – the evidence is in – get the kids immunised for heaven’s sake!

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Annie Also

    I worked at Stockton Hospital in the 1970’s. Some wards had plenty of grossly incapacitated people a result of disease that are now preventable. Before people like “Thomas” sprout their shit, please go and visit one of these places for the profoundly retarded and disabled and get educated.

    Our daughter had our first grandson. We checked our whooping cough immunisation and it was not there …we got a booster. We updated our pneumonia and flu as well to make sure we did not harm our little one. He was three weeks and four days premmie…we could not risk his health after his shaky start. I am glad my daughter refused anyone to be near him who was not immunised…
    Since then he has had his immunisation..and is now 4 and a half months old.
    I have seen the result of diseases to unborn and little ones…you would not want to risk it.
    My dad also spoke of the ‘olden days’ when kids at his school died of diptheria…
    Unless you have experienced the stupidity of the anti-vaxx brigade you are taking not just your own child, but everyone elses’ children lives ( including QUALITY of life) in you hands. I hope someone starts a class action sometime and sues the pants off these ignorant idiots. We are so lucky to live in a country that has immunisation freely available..Not long ago women died in childbirth, after birthing ( due to septicemia and haemorraghe) and babies died in the first year of life ( higher percentage of boys than girls). Doing my ancestry I see that a hundred years ago it was common for people to lose at least one baby after birth…Immunisation is one of the great leaps forward, along with hygiene, antibiotics, safe contraception and Government support for the poor. Let’s not go backwards with superstitious anti-scientific propaganda!!!

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Nat

    Can we please give this document more weight than the anti vaxxer cranks please?

    No scientist I know has ever gone into science to make lots of cash, and they are all smart enough to get into other careers, but chose to work in science.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Lisa

    Children are vulnerable to their parents choice as to whether they will be vaccinated or not, why would a parent risk their child’s health and not vaccinate, to those who don’t vaccinate, I’m sure you’re decent and loving parents but don’t risk it, you’re playing Russian roulette with your child’s health.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    julia

    Ironically, the developing world who most suffer from these diseases desperately seek the resources and opportunity to have their children vaccinated. These anti-vaxers in the developed world have had the luxury of growing up in a time when they have been protected by the majority of parents who had their children vaccinated. Given their strong views on how this is such a huge conspiracy across countries, governments and medical specialists, are they now comfortable taking their children with them to parts of Africa, Asia or South America that experience high rates of these diseases and seeing how it all plays out?

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Thank you all for the pro big pharma attack.

    For the record I did not link Autism and cancer to Vaccination, I merely commented that there are lots of illnesses on a dramatic rise, showing a vary sad state of health of Western nations.

    Also for the record I have studied both sides of the argument extensively almost full time for years. So dont tell me what I know and don’t know.

    All you people who rely on “Scientific Research” Well have a good look at who paid for the scientific research. Have a good read up on how many times whistle blowers have exposed the fraud of Big Pharma sponsored research and testing.

    I have a photo of a flu shot packet that states on the packet that controlled research shows it has no effect in reducing influenza!!!!! . Send me your email address and I will send you the photo!

    Also have a good look at the ingredients actually in a vaccination shot, then cross reference the ingredients to toxicity charts… like I have done.

    I also noticed how none of you addressed the issue of how vaccinated kids should stay away from unaccented kids in case they catch something… hello. I thought vaccinations protect your children, from who..Other vaccinated children?

    Its all right up there with Flouride or do you all believe that bullshit as well

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Leonie Smith

    What I also find appalling is the ignorant statement that many Anti Vaxxers make “If immunisation is so good, what are you worried about you won’t get it!”

    As some of you have said before. Vaccination doesn’t always prevent you from getting the illness, if you are unlucky to get it, it maybe if vaccinated you would get a lesser version of it. But if you are already ill with another illness, you may die, as one of the previous commentators pointed out to Thomas.

    Both my kids were vaccinated against Whooping Cough, but my son still got it, he just he recovered quicker than I did, I hadn’t had a booster shot…and didn’t get over it for 3 months, it was THE most horrible illness, and as a singer I couldn’t work for 3 months. The next door neighbours had a new baby and I could’ve passed it on to the baby before I was even showing the worst symptoms…I didn’t go over there thank god!

    By refusing to have your child vacinated you are putting the lives of babies and the already sick in danger. Also some of these so called…”normal” childhood illnesses can cause the most awful disabilities, Measles can cause profound deafness, chicken pox can be the cause of life long shingles, and there are many other “side effects”

    If one of my children gave a baby or a sick child Whooping cough and that child died, because I hadn’t immunised my child, I don’t know how I could live with myself knowing that there was an alternative to that death.

    And one of my children has ASD, its genetic by the way, he was also a 9 week preemie, and I guarded him closely and wouldn’t allow anyone to touch him till he was immunised, if when he was finally allowed out of hospital he had come in contact with a person with Whooping Cough he would have died.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Nobody invents conspiracies to make nothing out of it. Conspiracies are invented to make money and usually lots of it.

    As for the Third Word comments. Why not fix the source of the disease.. dirty water, bad sanitation, malnutrician. Or do you think a jab in the arm takes that all away..

    The oncologist told me I would not see 2004. I stopped taking their toxic crap and saw a real doctor, who saved my life….. and yes while I have had leukemia I have been around all manner of sick people and I have caught nothing… I can explain that but I doubt any of you would be interested (including the Oncologist when I bumped into him 4 years ago).

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Julia

    Thomas, your not helping yourself, get off the couch and go experience reality for people living in extreme poverty. As if all third world problems can be done away with in a flippant fix to dirty water, poor sanitation, and malnutrition. You are extremely fortunate to be living in Australia. It would be nice to repay this good fortune by ensuring that you do your part to ensure this country remains as disease free as possible.

    • Reply November 26, 2012

      vanessay

      Thomas will not be convinced by science or reason, no matter how hard we try. He said it all when he said “nobody invents conspiracies to make nothing out of it” How much is made by anti vaxxers peddling their misbegotten theories, books etc?
      Thomas,the ingredients in vaccinations (yes I looked) do not seem to present any difficulties to me. The picture accompanying this article is somewhat misleading, the actual amount of fluid injected in your baby is MUCH smaller than this, so the amount of formaldehyde (I assume that is your issue) and aluminium must be so minute. When typing whooping cough vaccines into Google the first thing that comes up is the wildly misnamed Australian Vaccination Network (run by she who must not be named) and I think a lot of people are getting their misinformation from that.
      If you really have this photo of a flu shot why not email to this site so we can all see it? Also, PUBLISH YOUR SOURCES. Where is the research on deaths linked to cervical cancer vaccine, for instance, which you mention in your initial post?

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Mia

    Thomas Brookes, if you use GOOGLE as your source of knowlege than.. well good luck mate!! far out.. go and do some proper reading first…

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Mia

    oh and if only it was sooo easy to fix all of those sources of diseases you mentioned .., how about you go and fix it all tomorrow huh?

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Hi Julia, I choose to not make comment on your insulting intro.

    Would you like to run your Third World comment past me again.

    Last time I looked in a Third World Country (with my own eyes) the “disease” (not “all third world problems”) were being caused by dirty water, poor sanitation, and malnutrition (that includes hunger by the way).

    FYI. If the USA and Israel stopped spending money on war and armaments for just one month, all of those issues you referred to as “flippant” would be fixed in the entire world for ever.

    Maybe you know something the experts don’t?

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Mia, thank you for your display of ignorance.

    FYI. I have read extensively, including material by Doctors and University educated researchers who are of the same opinion as myself.

    Also I contribute funds to a number of aid projects overseas as well as direct funding of an orphanage in Tibet, and soon one in East Timor. I also contribute to Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd, and a number of other less known direct action groups… to stop this country being poisoned by not just Pharmaceutical companies.

    I have gone to the point where myself and Bob Irwin got arrested and jailed trying to stop our water and farmland from being poisoned by the toxic CSG Industry.

    Just out of interest, what do you and Julia do to improve the planet and all its citizens, while you hurl insults, without knowing a single thing about me.

    What do you and Julia done? Notice I ask, instead of assuming…….

    Like I said… If the USA and Israel stopped spending money on war and armaments for just one month, all of those issues referred to as “flippant” would be (easily) fixed in the entire world for ever.

    Kind Regards
    Thomas

    • Reply November 26, 2012

      Lynne

      Thomas – I think you protest too much! Why do you need to defend your stance?

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    sue Bell

    Dear Mr. Brookes,
    Why should anyone take you seriously. Let us discuss the question of fluoride. Fluoride is a naturally occurring element.
    It was realised many, many years ago that a certain level of fluoride in the drinking water protected teeth from decay. My experience shows, as does professional literature, that
    if a dentist works in an area that has low or no levels of fluoride
    that dentist is sure to do a shocking amount of fillings and extractions on children, often a full mouth clearance. When you work in a well fluoridated area most children will reach their twenties without a single filling. Unfortunately in their twenties
    our children eat rubbish, drink rubbish and don’t clean their teeth and consequently get decay, here it is to be hoped that the fluoride in beer provides some protection for them.
    Do you believe dentists are 1. gullible 2. part of a conspiracy (a conspiracy that actually loses them money) 3. deliberately lying to patients?
    The horror of rampant tooth decay that I have seen in small children sickens me, especially when I know there is a simple preventative.
    No one should take any notice of what you say or what any other conspiracy theory people say as it is deliberately ignorant nonsense.
    I apologise for being so so angry but stupidity makes me very angry, especially where it involves the health of children.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    susan

    Thomas. As someone who claims to have studied the issue almost full time for years, you should be aware that bringing up ‘flu vaccines like you have is disingenuous. Influenza strains mutate incredibly quickly and as a result, vaccines are likely to not protect against the current strains going around. Completely unlike childhood vaccinations. Flu vaccines are not the issue under discussion. The issue is child vaccination. But thanks for trying to change the topic to suit your needs. Of course, we could also take your ‘flu comment to suggest your years of intense study haven’t lead to a reasonable understanding of the subject.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Dear Sue Bell, (and others). I believe most researchers, dentists and doctors are sincere in what they do. They can also be sincerely wrong.

    The overwhelming evidence is that Fluoride in excess can actually damage teeth. As well as cause brain damage, cancer and all sorts of diseases. It is well linked to dimensia. Fluoride does not prevent tooth decay unless it is applied directly to the tooth and even that is questionable due to the amount of fluorosis seen on teeth. ouosis .

    Say you drink 2 glasses of water a day and I drink 10. Which is the safe dose. (by the way I have filters to remove Fluoride from my water.)

    You might be interested to know that they remove fluoride from the water prior to kidney dialysis. You might like to enquire why.

    Regards
    Thomas

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Suzan, Hey don’t shoot me. I am just reading from the packet.
    Wish I could put photo’s on here and you would see what I am talking about.

    Why would a doctor give somebody a flu shot when on the packet the shot comes in, it says studies show it doesnt work???.

    If its for a different strain (as you described), then again why give it to you if it is not going to work.

    I can send you the photo and you can make up your own mind.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Despite all the attacks and accusations that have been made against me today….I have still not had a single response to….

    “I hear the constant statement (also being used by some daycare centres to bar unvaccinated children). The public (and other students) are at risk from unvaccinated children. This a simple admission that vaccination doesn’t work. How can the vaccinated public and children, be at risk from unvaccinated children, if vaccination gives protection?.

    And please dont tell me that if your vaccinated child gets a disease that it is lessoned because of the vaccination. It is claptrap peddled by the medical profession that has no basis in real studies.

    Google photos of reactions to vaccinations, but make sure you have a strong stomach. Also children who have had their immune system permanently damaged by vaccination. Have a look at that too. Then ask your doctor for independent statistics. I’ll bet he hasnt got any.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    susan

    O-kay . . . We see now your comment was not deliberately trying to derail the discussion. You are genuinely ignorant about ‘flu vaccination. I don’t need to see the photo, i am happy to believe flu vaccine packaging could carry that warning. It still doesn’t enhance an anti childhood vac argument.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Just for sport.. Lets now have a look at the link between Austism and ultrasounds. The increase in Autism directly follows the line of the increased use of ultrasounds during pregnancy to supposedly look for Downs Syndrome. I’m not saying anything.. research it your self and I mean really research it…. not the crap from the sickness industry. Do you think if there is a link, they are going to admit it and the lawsuits that would follow……. just saying

    • Reply November 26, 2012

      vanessay

      Firstly, Thomas, please provide links to your research and facts so we can all read it, you have not quoted any books, journals, research papers or websites. Secondly, I do not think you understand what ultrasounds are or that Down Syndrome is not really detectable by ultrasound but by CVS or amniocentesis. Certain conditions which may appear along side Down Syndrome may be detectable by ultrasound.
      Nothing that you have said has led me to believe that you have even a basic, high school level of understanding of Chemistry, Biology and Physics and I am calling you for what you are: a troll!
      All chemicals are not the same. A tiny bit of asbestos will kill you, ingesting a large amount of H2O will also kill you.
      I would say that the increase in cancers in dogs and cats is the result of affluence. More people can afford to use vet services, more people can afford the treatment of animals with chemo etc. Again, where are the figures?

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    FerrylBerryl

    Thomas – again – heard of Hib? How has sanitation and water quality improved in Australia since the 90’s. If its all sanitation and water quality why did rates of immunisable disease fall consistently for decades (very, very sharply at the beginning) and then rise suddenly when immunisation rates dropped?

    Also, in all your many years of full time research into immunology (funny how actual immunologists are pretty much 99%+ aligned with the pro vax position so I find you and others like you with that same ‘I’m super duper informed’ line pretty amusing) how have you never come across the wild, groundbreaking concept that different immune systems respond to different pathogens differently? Hence the fact that immunised children sometimes catch (usually a milder form as their systems have already been exposed to and learned how to fight the disease) the diseases they are immunised for. Not rocket science. Not even a little bit.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    Susan, despite my having Leukaemia, I dont get flu shots and I have not had the flu in 13 years, while all around me get it. Except those who take the suppliment I take. They dont get it either.

    Vanessa thats right formaldehyde and aluminium and other nasties. So Vanessa, how much of this tiny amount is safe? do you know? Guess what! neither do they.

    My uncle worked for 5 days at an asbestos mine. He only breathed in a “tiny amount”. It killed him 40 years later…

    Have you looked at the increase in cancer among dogs and cats. it exactly parallels, the use of all these treatments to prevent this and that, and the toxins keep building up and building up…. Have a look at who publishes all the material on drugs and vaccinations for animals. The peole who make the stuff…. Yep, vets are sincere too….

    • Reply November 27, 2012

      The Huntress

      Thomas, I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but formaldehyde is a naturally occuring metabolite in the human body. We metabolise formaldehyde from such agents as bananas and tomatoes. The amount of formaldehyde that is contained within immunisations is far less than what is naturally occuring in the human body on a daily basis. Just some food for thought.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    FerrylBerryl

    Oh and explain to me why people are still dying from other diseases that you cannot be vaccinated against, despite all this good water and sanitation??

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Stella Burnell

    Its obvious that none of the “anti-vax” people have ever actually known anyone who had one of these diseases. My sister had polio and she spent over a YEAR in an iron lung . For the rest of her short life she was crippled with withered legs. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. IN my mother’s time, every family in her home village lost a child to diphtheria – they choked to death.
    I just feel sorry for the children of the anti-vax campaigners. Pity help them

    • Reply November 26, 2012

      Jenny

      Exactly! It is the child of the anti-vax parent who is the one who will be at risk. No doubt if one of these illnesses should occur then it will no doubt be someone else’s fault.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    And ….Still nobody answers my question as to how immunised children are somehow endangered by unimmunised children.

    Nobody asks what I take that keeps my leukemia at bay or stops me getting the flu for 13 years….

    and for the record I have had 5 dogs who all but the one who got run over, have all lived to an old age and none got cancer, and none have been vaccinated.. but hell that must be coincidence.

    And further for the record this “troll” turns 60 next month, so I have seen a lot… and after getting very ill (and not dying on cue)…. enough to see thru the bullshit we are being fed by the Government and its Corporate mates who most of you cant see are making you sick.

    There is an old saying that…. Pharmaceutical companies don’t make cures, they make life long customers…

    If any of you have even the slightest interest in being healthy watch a video called “You Are What You Eat”, get hold of a book called the ” Farmacist Desk Reference” (Don Tolman), and keep you and your children away from doctors (and big Pharma) unless you have broken a bone…

    Over and out…..

    .

    • Reply November 27, 2012

      Renee

      Thomas: Do YOU have children? That is after all what the article is about. Not about your supplements, or freaking fluoride. You keep coming back to the point you made about immunised kids being at risk of non-vaccinated children contracting and spreading diseases. We all (Pro-Vaxx) know that vaccines certainly help your child avoid life threatening illness, but it is not a safe guard against them. Swine Flu (H1N1) was a mutant strain of the Flu, and people who had their flu shots still contracted the disease. It is in the nature of diseases to mutate, just as living things adapt, so as to not be killed off. The more people who don’t vaccinate are creating a larger breeding ground for disease to modify their make-up, which our current vaccines may not be able to combat. By not helping to eradicate or at least alleviate the illnesses we can vaccinate against, they are part of the problem that will see instances of Polio and Diphtheria creep back into our society until they become an epidemic.

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Lynne

    Thomas – I knew that there was no way that I could reasonably do justice to the research when it came Time to have my children vaccinated approx 10 years ago. I consider myself a very discriminating person but on this one I just didn’t feel I wanted to risk my children’s lives so had to trust what I saw before me – how could i risk my child’s life on a principle? Wasn’t willing to risk it…

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Flip

    Dear Mr. Brookes,

    Would you be willing to accept the concept that certain vaccinations have been proven to be significant steps forward in overall human-health? Specifically, smallpox and polio vaccinations (although the beginnings of the smallpox vaccination would never have passed through big pharma today, polio certainly would have); diptheria, and the MMR vaccinations as well, but most importantly smallpox and polio. And, most tellingly, neither smallpox nor to my knowledge polio, are vaccinations currently offered to the average Australian schoolchild, because the true effect of those vaccines has been to virtually eradicate them (though polio is making a bit of a comeback, and every now and then smallpox escapes, but on the whole, they’re not ‘active’ schoolage vaccines). Wiping out a disease by making the whole world an inhospitable place for it to live for long enough to mutate and become more dangerous, while making it harder to reach the point where, in smallpox, the sufferer becomes more contagious; shedding the scabs and so forth is harder for smallpox to achieve in a body which has been immunised with cowpox. I would love to see that happen with malaria, for example, which would as you say be a manyfold process, involving vaccines and watercleanup amongst other things – but with smallpox and polio, it has proven to be essentially a single-item solution.

    I understand where you are coming from – for some specific vaccinations, the side-effects may not be pleasant. I’ve had one where the side effects landed two of my friends in the emergency room (one had a cold, the other had the flu, and neither were asked if they had any illnesses before being given the vaccination, which doesn’t play well if you’re not well – this was due to incompetence of those vaccinating us, who were not, as it turned out, medical professionals, and this being an all-girls high school were expected to ask everybody if there was any possibility any of us were pregnant, and only asked us on our third of such shots. No, we can’t sue, this was NZ, and the meningitis b vaccination). Those same vaccinations have left me with an injection site which still hurts after 8 years; it’s hurting now, I just had a bath. I still would tend to avoid doing the things which might have me catching a meningitis bacteria which would be foreign to my own body, but this is because I know there are far more meningitis strains than I have been vaccinated for, and there’s little science on how those vaccines interact with the one I’ve already had (I understand that signs point to ‘badly’). This caused, for example, much consternation in Canada, where the high school board had to issue me with dispensation to attend schools even though I didn’t have the Canadian meningitis vaccinations against the more common strains there, while they were compulsory for other students without medical grounds against them. (Though their ads regarding vaccinations were entirely hilarious to me, in that they constantly mentioned that the vaccine for meningitis b didn’t exist, but that parents should vaccinate against all of the other strains that could be done; it became traditional to yell ‘lies!’ at this ad, but I digress.) In New Zealand, however, I might be able to be more free about sharing water bottles, as the b-strain is the most common in the area, and others around me have been vaccinated against the same strain, thus making us inhospitable to the negative actions of the bacteria. On the other hand, I certainly don’t fear catching German Measles (Rubella, or however it’s spelt, the R in the MMR vaccine), and ending up with, on the lighter scale, seriously impaired eyesight. I like my eyes just fine, thanks, but my father did catch German Measles as a boy before vaccines, and while there’s a genetic predisposition to being longsighted in his family (which he also has), his severe nearsightedness has been definitively traced back to that specific infection. Still, it could have been worse; he could have been blinded, or died.

    But when herd immunity, courtesy of vaccines, works, it acts by protecting the more vulnerable members of the community. Vaccination isn’t merely about protecting the children, it’s about protecting the people around those children. I’ll not discuss how vaccination works, as I realise that you’re perfectly aware of how vaccination operates once it’s in the body, but I’ve always been led to believe it’s not an instantaneous effect. While the person, who for argument’s sake we’ll assume has been vaccinated, is fighting off the initial onslaught on the body’s immune system with this more dangerous version of something the body’s met before, that person becomes a carrier.

    It’s not a matter of protecting the vaccinated person – though the vaccine will certainly allow the illness to be fought off faster, and leave fewer lasting effects – it’s a matter of protecting the people who do have compromised immune systems, and those who have real reason to not be vaccinated; elderly relatives; newborns; people with vaccine specific allergies (again, such as eggs, as it’s egg culture used to grow many vaccines); visitors to the country on the bus home; people – including schoolmates – with compromised immune systems for whatever reason. Protecting those people, especially those who cannot be immunised in any way shape or form, is achieved by ensuring that people can only be carriers for the shortest amount of time, or even not be carriers at all (depending on the specifics of the disease in question), by ensuring immunisation.

    Chickenpox, is a good example of immunisations which hasn’t typically involved vaccines. It’s typically considered a childhood disease, but it can be far worse, and in some cases potentially deadly, if an adult catches the juvenile chickenpox virus without having been previously immunised against it (although there is now a chickenpox vaccine, I consider that new enough the majority of parents with chickenpox-aged children would be unlikely to have received the vaccination in place of just catching it). Herd immunity to adults catching juvenile chickenpox for the first time was assured that way (although I’ll admit to the odd exception; my friend Grace had it three times as a child, and my Granny has had chickenpox a whopping 5 times and shingles 3; 4 of the chickenpox infections as an adult, and one while pregnant, but she had at least had it before, and each reinfection ran shorter than the last, which is very fortunate because juvenile-chickenpox-as-an-adult nearly killed her – and no, that wasn’t the time while she was pregnant either, and yes the baby lived). Shingles is going to be a right pain when I do get it, as that’s the price I’ll pay for catching chickenpox, but at least I’m not so likely to die from it. Chickenpox-herd-immunity through catching the disease itself has been a natural course of life with or without vaccinations, but I will grant that at least the vaccination isn’t so likely to result in shingles (though I’ll gladly listen if anybody tells me differently, so I can laugh at my friends who did get the vaccine if and when they do get shingles, and they can pay me the $2 they owe me; we were seven, it was a decent bet at the time).

    You must forgive me if when I’ve typed here doesn’t make much sense and/or doesn’t flow terribly well; it’s quite late for me, and I’ve caught quite an awful headcold (alas, the rhinovirus; too good at mutation to allow for any vaccine or effective treatment before it starts having fun with bacterial sub-infections…).

  • Reply November 26, 2012

    Amanda

    Immunization wanes which is why we have boosters. Immunisation often does not give 100% protection, but 90 % may be good enough if everyone s vaccinated. Even if you do catch the disease, it will usually be reduced in severity by the vaccine. I dont find any of these reasons not to be vaccinated. Unimmunised children represent a pool of disease in the community that infects those with waning immunity, infants ( who have an immature immune system) and the elderley,who have a less robust immune system. failure to immunize a child against measles could lead to the child having a mild illness, but to them infecting someone vulnerable ( an infant) and there is an increased risk of mortality with measles in the under 1 age group. Then there is polio, a terrible disease. If you look around, there are still people in the community affected by the last polio outbreak in the 50s. They have weakness and leg wasting and often chronic pain. These are the ‘lucky ‘ survivors. Some went into the iron lung and never came out. I met one of these survivors. He told me that he was admitted to hospital with polio as a child. the sickest children were placed next to the nurses station, and when he woke up, they had often died during the night and disappeared. One or two children died every night. Even the immunized are at risk if there is an outbreak because of incomplete protection and waning levels of immunity. These diseases were terrifying, and often terrible ways to die in agony ( diptheria and tetanus)and vaccines have been life saving. Let’s not go back to the dark ages on this.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Ross

    I am with you Thomas, they are all blind to the corruption…Go drink some more fluorided water peeps and turn on the main stream media….lol …… Your all a part of gender 21……

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Rhoda

    There are two risks.

    One the risk of contracting disease if you are not vaccinated and the other is the risk of having an life threatening reaction to the vaccine. The millions of children who are vaccinated each year and who remain immune from these contagious diseases proves I think that it is safer for your child to be vaccinated then not. Medical science has weighed the evidence.

    To suggest that the small chance of a reaction is more dangerous to your child than exposure to all the different life threatening diseases that vaccination prevents is a nonsense.

    And as someone has pointed out already there are children that cannot get vaccinated because of medical issues, who have to rely on other kids being vaccinated for some protection even if it’s not full protection. The bigger the pool of unvaccinated people in the community then the more chance there is of them coming in contact with someone who is a carrier.

    In affect if you’re not vaccinated you are putting not only yourself at risk but the community.

    However to convince someone who’s made up their mind against vaccination is like trying to convince an evangelist to turn atheist. Can’t be done. People believe what they want to believe.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Tony W

    @ Thomas Brookes – “Conspiracies are invented to make money and usually lots of it.”

    No Thomas, conspiracies are invented by conspiracy theorists.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Janet G

    I suggest that those who believe vaccinations are a conspiracy also believe that the sun goes around the earth and the concept of evolution is a fallacy. After all, what did the Enlightenment teach us? That some of us prefer the dark.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Marilyn

    When my daughter was a baby I had her vaccinated. My neighbour a few doors down, who had a child the same age,did not. She preached to me about the dangers of vaccination – she was a social worker, university educated, into alternative medicines. When another neighbour’s two little boys (who had been vaccinated) got whooping cough, she was almost triumphant that her child had not got sick. These people are beyond rationality.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Mia

    Thomas Brookes – to answer your question: I became a scientist… but that aside. How about you listen to this podcast http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/throsby/professor-peter-doherty/4249110 – here Professor Peter Doherty is speaking about vaccination, but hey, what would he know, he is ONLY professor and ONLY won Nobel Prize… (probably not good enough for you to believe in what he says).
    As for “conspiracies”, maybe you should look into one that involved mutations of the wheat in the 60s and how sugar and carbs are harmful to our health rather than argue that vaccinations are wrong.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Thomas Brookes

    To those few who agreed with me thank you. To those who disagreed with me, but put their (sometimes lengthy) position politely….thank you also. (we can agree to disagree)

    To those who resorted to stupid insults, accusations and hysterical rhetoric… Thank you for the invitation to an argument, but I decline.

    I still stand by my comments on a sickness industry that will send the country broke……

    I ask people to stop and think, if the so called medical profession and researchers are doing so well, how come so many illnesses (including mental), diseases and particularly cancer are statistically out of control….. Read the WHO statistics… its is now 1 in 3 and will soon be 1 in 2.

    Take a really good look at the last line ## from the WHO website…

    Cancer Key facts

    # Cancer is a leading cause of death worldwide, accounting for 7.6 million deaths (around 13% of all deaths) in 2008 (1).
    # Lung, stomach, liver, colon and breast cancer cause the most cancer deaths each year.
    # The most frequent types of cancer differ between men and women.
    # About 30% of cancer deaths are due to the five leading behavioral and dietary risks: high body mass index, low fruit and vegetable intake, lack of physical activity, tobacco use, alcohol use.
    # Tobacco use is the most important risk factor for cancer causing 22% of global cancer deaths and 71% of global lung cancer deaths.
    # Cancer causing viral infections such as HBV/HCV and HPV are responsible for up to 20% of cancer deaths in low- and middle-income countries.
    # About 70% of all cancer deaths in 2008 occurred in low- and middle-income countries.
    ## Deaths from cancer worldwide are projected to continue rising, with an estimated 13.1 million deaths in 2030.

    Something is going horribly wrong and very few people are prepared to really look beyond vested interests, to figure out what is wrong.

    I know what it is and the cause is simple…. MONEY!

    When something doesn’t make sense, follow the money.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Rhoda

    The subject under discussion here is vaccination. Far as I’m aware there is no vaccination against cancer although researchers are trying to develop one.

    With respect Thomas, and given your concern about the rising incidence of cancer, would you have the cancer vaccine or encourage younger members of your family to have it if such a vaccine became available in the future or would you expect them to take the chance of not getting this disease?

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Sally

    Enjoy your 15mins on a soap box Thomas Brookes, because beyond this page, your twisted, dangerous thinking and ignorant voice is drowned out by the intelligent, educated and informed majority. The likes of pesky, ignorant, selfish minorities like you fly in the face of the great medical advancements of the modern age that have effectively eradicated life-threatening, preventable diseases and eased suffering worldwide. Think of the greater good – and do us all a favour by moving to a dirty, Third World slum – see how long you last without immunisation protection there.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Lulu

    My 2 cents: I’m a pro-vaccer and my daughter is now 14 & up-to-date with everything except the flu. HOWEVER at the age of 2 (in 2000) she got measles – we live in Cairns, gateway to PNG where measles is still rife. She spent a week in hospital on intravenous antibiotics while the doctors tried to figure out her problem. I begged her own doc to visit us in the ward (an elderly englishman with a tribe of his own kids). He took one look and said “measles, you tossers, look it up in your med books”. Just what my mum & I had been saying to these so-called experts the whole week! As it turned out, the tropical health unit had to be advised and apparently she was one of 20 vaccinated kids that year in Carins with it. I was told that the vaccination was so old now that measles had learnt to ‘mutate’ and the vaccination was no longer as effective as it was when it was invented. Sure Measles was erradicated in this country, once upon a time, but it’s creeping back in and the anti-vaccer’s are not helping, but the science boguns also need to look at the disease now with with fresh eyes. We were lucky, #1 child is healthy and thriving now, but it took a very long time to eradicate those nasty antiboitics from her little body.

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Illyria

    The instance of autism has risen dramatically since 1984. In 1984 apple released it’s computers for us to buy …

    APPLE CAUSES AUTISM!

    (well, makes as much sense as immunisation causing autism)

    • Reply November 27, 2012

      The Huntress

      Haha! Nice one!

  • Reply November 27, 2012

    Illyria

    Hi Thomas, that’s a lot of posts …. but not a single shred of evidence. Please supply the evidence to validate your many claims.

    Thanks,

  • Reply November 28, 2012

    Maggie

    Thomas, just look at it from different point of view. I’m preparing my body to have a baby and wanted to make sure all is well. Went to see my doc and said that I cannot remember (neither my mum) me having chickenpox. Mind you, I wasn’t born in Au but in EU. (this is important for you to understand that lots of AU population comes from overseas and we have got no idea about their medical past). Anyway, my doc did a test, she said that im immune to chickenpox (yay) but i have low immunity to measles…she RECOMMENDED (mind you, recommended NOT forced me) to have vaccination. Reason being is that if i was pregnant and got measles not only its huge risk for me but also for the baby being born with many problems one being brain damage. Well guess what?? I did not even think twice about getting vaccination. I would have never forgive myself if i got measles while pregnant.
    I hope this will make you look at it from different perspective.

  • Reply November 28, 2012

    Mia

    haha Thomas, love how you use stats without any meaning of it what-so-ever… you clearly have got no clue about statistics.. its not about numbers.. its about analysing it.. and you dont know how to do it. You dont even know how to read stats in the first place.. you need a bit more data with it like: what was the sample size, demographics, ethicity… list goes on and on and on.. but you are just one of those who look at numbers and see just that… sad :(
    but anyway, im happy for you to make this blog all about you and your problems rather than discussion about vaccinating children, well done mate :)

  • Reply November 28, 2012

    Rache

    I was under the impression Anti vaxers were doing the scaremongering – don’t look like that here. Our 9 yr old son became violently ill within a day of having his 12 month vaccination, he had convolsions, vomiting, high pitch screaming for hours and a very high temp, he appeared to be in massive shock. The Doctor refused to look into the possiblity of it having to do with the vaccination and said it must be a virus. From then on my sons behaviour changed, he went from reaching all his milestone to regressing. He has had many years of OT, speech therapy etc. This case is less severe compaired to other families I have talked to, one of which was compensated for the damage the vaccination did to their child. Maybe the vaccines have some effect in eradicating disease but im not convinced they are safe.

  • Reply November 28, 2012

    Daphne Alaksa

    There was no vaccinations available when I was a little kid. One of the first memories in my life is being in hospital with diptheria. I was three years old at the time, and when I was an adult my mum told me that the hospital staff told her that she should be prepared for the fact that I was possibly not likely to survive. Believe me, this is not a good memory. One of my other very early memories was lying in bed at home with whooping cough. The bedroom I shared with my older sister had 2 windows, one of which faced a verandah. The window was open, it was late afternoon and I was hallucinating. What I was hallucinating was 2 orientals, a man and a lady. They were standing on the verandah looking in at me. My mum was in the room at the same time and told me that there was nobody there, but I saw them anyway. A lot of children died from these diseases when I was a little kid, but I was one of the lucky ones who survived. Later on my eldest sister, who was fifteen years older than I informed me that I was always a scrawny, tough little kid. All I can do is to implore parents to please get their children immunised. These things can kill, and have done so in the past.

  • Reply November 29, 2012

    Tony W

    @ Rache – “Maybe the vaccines have some effect in eradicating disease”

    You lost me right there Rache. Grudgingly conceding that vaccination MAY have had SOME effect in eradicating disease is like reluctantly admitting the earth MAY be round.

    You’ve shown your colours there Rache, I was interested in your story up to that point and placed some credence in it, but after reading that line I wouldn’t trust a single word that comes out of your mouth.

  • Reply November 29, 2012

    Ally

    Ouch.
    When your child goes into a little coma after each immunisation for the first two years of vaccination but you keep going back because you have no understanding about what is happening and the doc is telling you it’s normal, eventually you question what is happening, and then have to live with the guilt for the rest of my life. I take care of my kids – when they are sick, they are at home until they are well. I don’t question how other people raise their kids, but I am resentful of people rubbishing me for my own, quiet, private decision. Anti-faxes aren’t all ‘hysterical cranks’…do remember you don’t always know both sides of the story. It is simply not for everyone – I would rather see people take more responsibility when their children are unwell – keep them home and look after them.

  • Reply November 29, 2012

    kelli

    finally Ally, some words of wisdom. Each to their own. I am not sure why those who choose to vaccinate feel so threatened by those who don’t. Surely you trust the vaccinations???
    I find this statement in the article amusing. Most infants and young children died within days of being born, of influenza and poor sanitary conditions not lack of vaccination.
    “You just have to think back to the early days of Australia and look in the cemeteries and see how many young children died of infectious diseases before we had these wonderful vaccines and before we had antibiotics.”

    As it is, whooping cough vaccination is at an all time high yet world wide cases of this illness are extremely high because the new strain “B Pertussis” is not covered by the vaccination still being given.

  • Reply November 29, 2012

    Rhoda

    It’s quite clear to me. If someone if offering a vaccination for cancer I’ll take it thank you.

  • Reply December 2, 2012

    ro.watson

    I had whooping cough as a kid… I think when I was about 4+ years old in the early 60’s. And croup too. All I can say is vaccinate your kids and everyone wash your hands and cover your mouth with the back of your hand when coughing. I remember the polio years at primary school. Yet, I am not convinced about annual flu vaccines…despite a recomendation I have it. I just prefer to avoid doctors’ waiting rooms in flu season. I haven’t had the vaccine against pneumonia which is recommended for people with lung diseases, but I get this may be helpful.

  • Reply December 2, 2012

    Tony W

    @ Ally – “I am resentful of people rubbishing me for my own, quiet, private decision.”

    I know exactly how you feel Ally. I’m fed up to the gills with people rubbishing me for my own, quiet, private decision to drive around pissed.

  • Reply December 3, 2012

    Tony W

    @ kelli – “I am not sure why those who choose to vaccinate feel so threatened by those who don’t.”

    Evidently you didn’t bother to read the article kelli:

    “Do you remember the tragic case of Dana McCaffery, the four week-old Lennox Head baby who died from whooping cough in 2010? Too young to be immunized, she caught the deadly bacteria in Northern NSW, an area infamous for its low immunisation rates.”

    Dana McCaffery would be alive today if people like YOU kelli hadn’t refused to vaccinate their children.

    Please note there are two kinds of immunity:

    1. Acquired Immunity – our own immune system produces antibodies when exposed to the disease itself, or to an inactivated form of the bacteria or virus which causes the disease (vaccination).

    2. Herd Immunity – if sufficient members of the herd are immunized they break the chain of infection, thus protecting members who are not immunized. In the case of pertussis (whooping cough) herd immunity requires 95% of the herd to be immunized.

    In other words, your unvaccinated children owe their health, and probably their lives, to the 95% of responsible parents who do have their children vaccinated.

    Please note too kelli that babies are extremely vulnerable to these diseases. The course of vaccines cannot be commenced under the age of 2 months, and is not completed until 6 months. Even then the child is not fully immune, requiring another dose at age 4 years.

    Hopefully now you can start to see why parents are so terrified by unvaccinated schoolchildren. They are disease carriers. If they catch whooping cough they won’t die themselves, but they can transmit the bacteria to other children who then bring it home to where there may be a baby in the house.

    You have the right not to vaccinate your children kelli, but you have no right to promote that to the public. Exactly what is your interest in doing that kelli, apart from mouthing off? Your children are at NO risk from vaccinated children, so why would you seek to stop other parents vaccinating them?

    That goes double for you Thomas Brookes, you have no stake in this at all, other than to promote your own conspiracy theories.

  • Reply December 3, 2012

    kelli

    Tony, I suggest you do a bit of research before spouting off.

  • Reply December 3, 2012

    Rhoda

    Seems to me one of the most important reasons to vaccinate these days is because there is increasing resistance to antibiotics. We can no longer rely on them absolutely .

    And it is not only young babies and children who are vulnerable until vaccinated but also those with compromised immune systems so if you are taking cancer drugs for instance then it can take up to a year after treatment is finished before the body’s immune response to these diseases kicks back in.

    No vaccine is 100% safe but then no one can guarantee a child who catches any of these childhood diseases will survive their illness either. The complications from pertussis alone include pneumonia and seizures. That is a huge risk to take don’t you think?

  • Reply December 3, 2012

    Tony W

    “Tony, I suggest you do a bit of research before spouting off.”

    kelli, I suggest you answer the direct questions I put to you.

    Fortunately around 94% of Australian parents are sufficiently responsible to have their children vaccinated against deadly diseases. That means there’s a 94% probability that your children will vaccinate your grandchildren, and criticize you for not having vaccinated them.

  • Reply December 5, 2012

    Liz

    I always find it funny that the anti-vax alternative types from the north coast are so against vaccination for their children – but when they go off travelling to India and simiar places, they always ensure they get their typhoid and cholera shots etc

  • Reply December 5, 2012

    Alberta

    Did anyone notice a small article in Sunday Telegraph about a doctor suggesting Gardasil vaccine needs to be investigated for causing premature menopause in a teenage girl?

  • Reply December 6, 2012

    Tony W

    Alberta, the case you mention is complete garbage. The girl had been experiencing menstrual problems for 2 years before she received the vaccine. The two doctors who reported the case are Catholic anti-abortion activists. Gardasil is loathed by the religious right because anything that protects against STIs is obviously encouraging sexual promiscuity! The report is propaganda, contrived as ammunition for antivaccinationists. The true facts of this case are presented here:

    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/10/30/ovarian-failure-caused-by-gardasil-not-so-fast/

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