MALE CIRCUMCISION. KINDER TO CUT?
UPDATE: August 28, 2012
The prodecure of circumcision of newborn boys has been approved by the influential American Academy of Paediatrics.
After a 10-year evaluation, the academy found the benefits included: prevention of urinary tract infections, acquisition of HIV, transmission of some sexually transmitted infections, and penile cancer.
It said the procedure “does not appear to adversely affect penile sexual function/sensitivity or sexual satisfaction”.
The new stance is a significant change from the academy’s neutral position on the issue, which was last stated in 1999.
Earlier this year, Malcolm Knox wrote on the topic for The Hoopla:
For such a small shred of the male appendage, the foreskin arouses surprisingly large passions.
You might think, given that being circumcised is a moment that passes as forgettably and routinely as the snipping of the umbilical cord, few adults would spare it much thought either way.
A German court has stepped into a religious minefield by banning male circumcision. Photograph via Time.com.
It’s not even worthy of a fight between the Palestinians and Israelis.
But the circumcision debate, for those who participate in it, is as hotly contested as any religious or political dispute.
A court in Cologne, Germany, ruled last week that a doctor performing a circumcision could be prosecuted under criminal law for violating a child’s ‘right to fundamental bodily integrity’.
The actual case in question did not result in a conviction, as the doctor who had botched the circumcision of a four-year-old Muslim boy had operated with parental consent; but in its judgement, the court remarked that circumcision ‘contravenes the interests of the child to decide later on his religious beliefs’.
As one of the 60 to 80 per cent of Australian boys who were circumcised in the 1960s, I do not feel that my rights are violated by having to be Christian, Muslim or Jew – if my non-possession of a foreskin is, as the court deemed, a qualification for membership of any of those clubs.
The German decision does not bother my religious identity or my sense of self.
But it does interfere with my email inbox.
About six years ago, I wrote an article about circumcision for Men’s Health magazine. Little did I know that I would be poking my nose into a hornet’s nest.
Professor Brian Morris, a molecular biologist at Sydney University, e-bombs the world with evidence to back his passionate pro-circumcision stance. Morris believes foreskins are a threat to the health of both men and women. He thinks they are prone to infection, harbour germs that cause sexually transmitted diseases, and are associated with cervical cancer in women.
If you think that the only people who really care zealously about the foreskin are men who have lost it, you would be wrong. Morris is a convincing and sober advocate for his case, which is that circumcision should be universal.
Morris criticises the Royal Australian College of Physicians, which is neutral on circumcision. Neutral, for Morris and other pro-circumcision advocates, means effectively anti-circumcision, because society’s and the medical profession’s default position now is to leave the foreskin alone.
Most parents, to be honest, don’t give it much thought.
But there is also a group of anti-circumcision campaigners who believe that men are damaged for life, psychologically and physically, by losing their foreskin.
Shane Peterson, who was part of my story, holds his beliefs with at least as much passion as Morris holds his. Peterson likens circumcision to female genital mutilation. He believes an inept circumcision denied him a sexual life and self-esteem to the point where he wished he was never born. With Sydney paediatrician, George Williams, Peterson has campaigned passionately to have circumcision banned.
When I asked the participants on both sides of the debate about their adversaries, they uttered the kind of contempt you would think were reserved for actual, not metaphorical, wars.
Some men do take the loss of their foreskin very personally.
I interviewed doctors who treat men seeking foreskin ‘restitution’, which usually involves pulling the skin around the penis up over the head and taping it, or even hanging heavy objects from it, to stretch it out.
In my upbringing, the foreskin was always a bit of a joke – you know, as in: “why you don’t buy calamari rings from the takeaway next door to the synagogue”. But for many men, the loss of their foreskin is no laughing matter.
Interestingly, both sides claim that they represent better loving: the pro-circumcision brigade contend that the foreskin’s absence leads to a desensitisation of the glans that gives longer lasting sex. The anti-circumcisers say this is tosh, and that a penis with a foreskin gives greater pleasure to both partners.
In the impossibility of a test case who has done it both ways, each argument must be taken as a profession of faith rather than fact.
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60 Responses to this article
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Simone July 2, 2012
What I don’t get about the pro-circumcision argument, is that everything that gets said about hygiene, cancer etc, could just be eliminated with good hygiene and good sexual practices. Much like women have to do. Much like most decent human beings would think to do!
My OB told me that my son’s ear was about as useful as his foreskin and had similar likelihood for cancer and hygiene issues…but chopping the ear off as much sense as chopping the foreskin off as a preventative measure. Wise man.
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Jess July 2, 2012
I am surprised by the 10-15%. I am a mother of a 2.5 yr old son, with another son due this week. Both are uncircumcised and as long as I have any say, shall remain so. However, amongst our circle of friends, all the little boys are being circumcised. My son is one out of 11 under 3 that is NOT circumcised. I stand by our decision, I don’t see it as necessary, but I do occasionally worry about the effect of my choice may be in 15 years, if my sons are the ones in the minority. Especially given that my husband, their father, IS circumcised.
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Carolyn July 2, 2012
I know someone who was circumcised when he was in his thirties, he was very bow legged for a few days.
I didn’t get the intimate details but know that the procedure was done so he and his wife could get pregnant.
It worked.
I’m lucky that I had two girls so never had to worry. -
The Huntress July 2, 2012
@Wendy
From a customer service level (ha ha!) I have no idea why they bring female sexual pleasure into the circumcision debate. I, personally, have never noticed a difference between circumcised or non-circumcised, when it comes down to my own selfish pleasure. But then it’s not exactly something I make mental notes about…
I had an argument with my boys father about circumcision – he was adament it should be done, whereas my stance is there is no need, unless it’s medically necessary. As there is starting to be good evidence leaning towards lower transmission of HIV via circumcised men it is a debate I open up to when it crops up from time to time, but at the end of the day it will be my boys decision if that’s what he wants. In the meantime we have had no hygeine issues to date (though that may change in teen years!) and no infections.
I’m really unsure where I stand in regards to the new law in Germany banning medically unneccessary circumcision. Part of me knows that banning it will drive practice undergroud – not a pleasant thought for all those poor little boys and I do believe that a parent does have a right to make decisions on behalf of the child. But the other part reasons that female circumcision is illegal and a child should have the right to religious freedom. Complicated debate, no doubt.
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RES July 2, 2012
As one who has had the opportunity of trying it “both ways”, there is absolutely no difference with or without the extra bit of skin.
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Jo-Anne July 2, 2012
Yes! I have had the pleasure of both & can easily say Un-circumcised is better! But to be fair, maybe the guy (s) with the chop hadn’t been to love making school? Now that i’m thinking about it…. Men with a foreskin have like a natural covering / protection (hijab) when naked, which disappears when aroused whilst Men without foreskins are fully exposed all the time. I wonder if they feel more vulnerable showing it’s face 24/7? I say leave them on. I think people are hung up about the foreskin. And it is up to the parents to “teach” personal hygiene from an early age – it’s very important. When I had my son in the 80′s the decision came up. I spoke to the beautiful German nurse…. she gave me a biblical wrap that they started circumcising way back then as they lived in the desert & had fewer opportunities to wash & that sand gets into everything! Easy decision for me & I’ve asked my son when older did it bother him…. He said no.
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The Rev Mountain July 2, 2012
As a circumcised guy, I have never had any issues doing without it. At school (I was born in the mid-80s) I was generally the only, or one of a few, who were circumcised, and the joke was always that I was Jewish (my parents were Catholic and Anglican). I was definitely in the minority, and as a (heterosexual) man, it always made other dude’s genitalia seem like a different beast.
I understand arguments for circumcision in developing countries, particularly those struggling with HIV and other STIs, but I can’t see the justification in the first world beyond the religious. While my circumcision went swimmingly and has never cause me any grief, my brother has had issues throughout his life and famously jokes he can piss around a corner as a result of his…
I’ve never had any complaints from people who have had the benefit of meeting my circumcised appendage (nor has he, as far as I’m aware), far from it, but I can see an argument being made either way. Kink.com (a BDSM oriented porn site) did an interesting behind the scenes talk with male and female porn stars on the topic of circumcision and it was basically 50/50 with regard to the way either gender felt about it. Most of the male porn stars said something along the lines of, “well, I’ve only ever used mine, so… I guess it’s pretty good”.
I understand those who get gruff about it being mutliation. I probably won’t circumcise my male children (if/when I have any), but it’s not from a dogged position. It’s just weighing up the pros and cons seems to come down (lightly) in favour of not having the unnecessary snip. -
Kaz July 2, 2012
My husband is, our sons are not. It was an active decision – he didn’t see the need, I wasn’t keen on subjecting them to an unnecessary procedure. Interestingly, about 5yrs ago (ie AFTER we had had our children), I discovered he, and his older brother weren’t circumcsised at birth (as I had assumed) but at the age of 3 and 5 respectively. Apparently his father had an infection, was advised to have the procedure and decided to have his sons done at the same time just in case they too ended up with infection issues. My husband can’t remember the procedure, but his older brother does, VIVIDLY, and has never been able to forgive his parents. How horrific?! I have no doubt they thought they were doing the right thing, but I couldn’t imagine putting my 3 and 5 yr old boys through that, and imagine their poor mother/wife – caring for 3 males who’d undergone the chop?! I imagine that put manflu into perspective!!!
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sami July 2, 2012
It seems so unnecessary, especially from a health or hygiene perspective. Us ladies seem to keep our parts clean fairly easily, and we have far more fold-y bits than blokes!
My sister reckons if she has a son he will be circumcised as it is ‘cleaner’ and it’s also a tradition in her partners family. I think tradition is never a good reason to do anything, but that’s just my point of view.
My partner still has a hoodie and I quite like it
it’s aesthetically pleasing, much more ‘interesting’ and he says he never had a problem with hygiene. Like any other body part, you just give it a wash!Why take the risk of such a pointless surgical procedure? I don’t think the benefits, whatever they are, outweight the risks. I like Simone’s analogy above
From another perspective, the boyfriend has a friend who was circumcised earlier this year, in his 20s or 30s (not sure his age exactly) for medical reasons. He says it was far better before, and now it’s become less sensitive as it’s always in contact with underpants.
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Jim July 2, 2012
The idea that problems of hygiene should be solved by removing part of our bodies is incredible to me. I accept that some people believe it is in the public interest, but what about we all wash ourselves properly.
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M July 2, 2012
I am a gay man who is uncircumcised. My partner is and when we have discussed the differences there is a definite difference in sensitivity in terms of sex. My father is circumcised, but my brother and I are not as my mother deemed it unnecessary and a rather cruel act for a baby to undergo. As for the cleanliness issue we clean all other parts of our body, why not our foreskin? It is just another one of those things we are told when we are young. I say leave baby boys the way they are and let them CHOOSE. I am all for prevention over cure, but cutting off a part of the body when washing will do the job seems silly to me.
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Jenny M July 2, 2012
Every male in my immediate family, extended family and in-laws etc is uncircumcised and they haven’t had infections or their partners cervical cancer. My father is 90 and still going strong.
Like every other post, its simply about washing – men & women.My view is why tamper with nature? However. it is not my business what other parents choose for their baby sons.
As for the love making I’m sure the difference is in the experience of the said owner, rather than if they are or aren’t circumcised
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vic@mummyateme July 2, 2012
I didn’t have a strong opinion either way until my son was born and then I couldn’t imagine sending my tiny baby off to have the end of his penis cut off without anesthetic. Mind-boggling.
A friend of my husband was circumcised last year after he split (!!!) his foreskin. I must remember to ask him (and his wife) whether sex is better with or without : ) -
Jennie July 2, 2012
I have twin sons who are 18 years old. Neither were circumcised at birth (didn’t see the need, and their father is uncircumcised). One boy had to be circumcised at 9 years of age because his foreskin was malformed. It was fairly traumatic and painful for him. Despite this, I would still not circumcise them if I had to make the decision again – the other twin and my husband have had no problems, and there are no other body parts we routinely cut off ‘just in case’ there is a problem later in life!
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Jenifa July 2, 2012
As a mother I gave a great deal of thought to this 25 years ago read heaps and my son was not circumcised. However he had problems at about age 10 and had to have it removed. At least his penis was bigger by then and he had anaesthetic. Bizarrely a few years later exactly the same thing happened to my nephew!
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Alex July 3, 2012
Your right to freedom of religious practice ends where another person’s body begins. And this is no less true just because they share your DNA. Every person deserves the right to bodily integrity.
Claims of health benefits are unsubstantiated. The HIV trials in Africa were not methodologically sound. UTIs can be treated with antibiotics, as we do with girls. Phimosis is overdiagnosed due to a lack of understanding of penile anatomy among older doctors. Actual phimosis can be treated with steroid cream and a stretching regimen.
The foreskin serves important functions: preservation of vaginal lubricant during intercourse, enables the ‘gliding’ motion, and protects the penis when flaccid.
You may not feel violated, but that doesn’t change the fact that you and I – along with millions of other young boys and girls – were sexually assaulted and mutilated when we were at your most vulnerable. If this only happened to one child in all the world it would be a heinous crime. Letting it happen to millions is apparently just ‘culture’.
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amd July 3, 2012
I cannot believe there are still people who would compare the grotesque horror of female genital mutilation – to give it is correct name – to male circumcision. My son is not circumcised, I understand the arguments against it. But when a little girl has her clitoris gouged out, her vaginal flaps sliced off and her vagina sewn up to a tiny hole that is in NO WAY comparable to the removal of a tiny piece of foreskin.
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Alex July 3, 2012
Amd, mutilation is mutilation. Neither is necessary, neither is justifiable. Male genital mutilation is the equivalent of a type 1 female genital mutilation, similar to a hoodectomy. You’re talking about a type 3 FGM that results in infibulation. The equivalent of type 3 FGM would be castration of the penis. But my original point remains: mutilation is still mutilation.
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amd July 3, 2012
Neither may be justifiable, but you absolutely cannot compare female genital mutilation to what is done to males. The reason you call it circumcision is just that, it is circumcision. If it were castration of the penis you would certainly call it castration of the penis.
Type 1 female genital mutilation, which removes the clitoral hood is almost always accompanied by the removal of the clitoris itself, so again, not comparable. FGM is usually carried out by traditional practitioners, without anaesthesia, using unsterile cutting devices. Even under sterile circumstances, all types of FGM can have massive health complications for females. Many little girls die after being genitally mutilated and almost all FGM carries long term physical and mental adverse health effects for those who survive it. The facts are easily accessible, simply search Female Genital Mutilation. The two should never be placed in the same category.
Again, my son is not circumcised and I understand the arguments against it. But the fact that you would try to compare the two unfortunately diminishes your argument.
And since this is so distressing to even think about, and you seem unable to understand that even attempting such a comparison is in itself grotesque, I will leave it at that.
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ellenni July 4, 2012
i dont like getting into this one but here goes. when my son was born he was circumcised because my mother told me it was the right thing.
he is now over 40 and recently he thanked me for deciding to have this done.
my husband was not done but at the age of 51 had to be for medical reasons.
our sex life did not suffer and nor did he in any was. i can tell you i prefer it now but thats a personal choice.
so you can argue til the cows come home but until you have experienced what my husband did you cant comment with any authority. -
Alex July 5, 2012
Ellenni that’s fine – an informed adult made a personal choice that affected him and him only. That’s not the subject of contention here.
We’re talking about the forcible amputation of the body part of an infant or child that cannot give consent. Which is clearly in Any. Other. Circumstance. immoral, and usually illegal.
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Matt August 28, 2012
You arguments are bullshit Alex. This lady and her husband have experienced first hand the problems of non-circumcision. Circumcising an adult male is a major procedure with a lot of pain and general anaesthesia. All this can be avoided with a very minor and completely forgettable procedure at birth. Her experiences are relevant and first hand. Get off your high horse and accept that some people consider circumcision the correct way to go.
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Karen July 8, 2012
I love that we can all voice our opionions on a subject that is taboo still in many countries and am very interested in this as I may have to make a decision on what to do when my baby is born in October. I still don’t know what it is (a great surprise) but as my husband is Senegalese and muslim I would love to know where to fine more informed information on both sides of this debate. I know Senegal is pushing to become one of the first African nations to end female genital cutting/mutilation (see http://www.unfpa.org/public/home/news/pid/9935 ) but they also still celebrate male circumcism and most boys are from 7 till 12 when this is done (see http://www.voanews.com/content/annual-male-circumcision-ceremonies-begin-in-senegal-99837324/123194.html ). Is it better for me to circumcise my possible son at birth then to stop him from having to go through it at that age? Is that then depriving him of his cultural heritage? Is it better to simply do nothing and allow him to make that choice later? If he grows up here will he ever need to do this?
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Kate July 8, 2012
My son is almost 24 and after researching the topic in depth at that time, decided against it. It was a battle fought against both sets of grandparents and siblings on both sides.
We won and he has never complained or ever had a problem.
I am horrified at the moment at the amount of young people having their baby boys mutilated. -
Alex July 8, 2012
The complaint that comparing male genital mutilation to female genital mutilation somehow dimishes FMG is a straw man argument. It’s a difference of degree only. Extending genital integrity protection to make in no way dimishes the protection enjoyed by girls.
Both FGM and MGM are blanket terms for a variety of excisions and amputations. The tiniest removal of skin from the clitoral hood is deemed FGM and is rightfully so illegal, yet the removal of 50% of the erogenous tissue from the male is legal and encouraged – this. is. madness.
Leave your son intact. He will thank you when he’s old enough to appreciate it. Otherwise you’re possibly condemning him to a life of dimished sexual capacity, victim hood and relationship tension. The scar around my penis is a daily reminder that my parents (and the state) weren’t there to protect me when I was at my most vulnerable.
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Matt August 28, 2012
I think your problems run much deeper than the scar around your penis. Hyperbole much?
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Adam July 8, 2012
I’m a happily 26 year old (uncut) male and couldn’t be more grateful Of my mum for not mutilating my genitals even though my dad was circumcised.
I have a great sex life with my fiancé and I’m clean with my foreskin just like any other
body part (hate that myth).I only have a couple circumcised mates who actually say there not that pissed off at there parents but wish they’d had a choice on what there penis looks like.
If I have kids and there boys I will Definitely NOT circumcise him it’s mutilation and simply it’s
HIS penis!Thank you
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Matt August 28, 2012
Seriously you couldn’t be more grateful to your parents for not having you circumcised? Seriously?
I think you and your foreskin may have some emotional attachment issues. It’s just a foreskin. Hardly something to feel so emotionally grateful for.
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myrick July 11, 2012
“Morris believes foreskins are a threat to the health of both men and women. He thinks they are prone to infection, harbour germs that cause sexually transmitted diseases, and are associated with cervical cancer in women.”
Routine infant circumcision has declined to 15% of Australia and 0% in New Zealand. There is no evidence that those countries have experienced a slowly growing urological disaster.
“Morris is a convincing and sober advocate for his case, which is that circumcision should be universal.”
I beg to differ. Morris is neither a pediatrician nor a urologist. He isn’t a doctor at all. He is obsessed with making all penises bald and has extensive links to a man convicted of child porn. He seems to believe that the medical literature can resolve all debates.
Morris is tone deaf to all sorts of sexual issues raised by circumcision. He dismisses all claims that circumcision adversely impacts male and female sexual pleasure and functionality as “intactivist propaganda.”
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myrick July 11, 2012
Most circumcised men are doing fine, but some are not, and that is ample reason to abandon the practice. Also, while some women have had the pleasure of both and don’t care, some have spoken eloquently in favour of the model with all factory installed moving parts. What circ cuts off is a large part of what comes in contact with the vaginal wall during intercourse. American medicine has not honestly investigated the effects of infant circumcision on the adult penis. We do not know the extent of complications that take decades to manifest themselves. We do not know whether circumcision makes a man more or less likely to experience PE or ED, especially starting in middle age. In the absence of such research, routine circumcision is unethical, because we simply have not gone looking for the possible harm it can do.
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Matt August 28, 2012
Plenty of uncircumcised men are not doing fine either. My best mate had to be circumcised at 24 years of age because of constriction. 2 weeks off work, general anaesthetic making it a significant procedure. He now has 2 boys of his own, both circumcised.
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jennifer August 28, 2012
My father, brothers and husband are circumcised, so I’d never considered it abnormal. I’d heard about the HIV risk and the Cervical Cancer link, so figured that if i has a son and have him circumcised.
Then, as a fairly new nurse, i watched small children have it done under anaesthetic, and helped care for then post operatively. If it hurts a 5 or 7 year old, then it hurts babies.
Then, as a student midwife, i watched little Jewish babies being circumcised within a maternity hospital. Never was i doing that to my babies. Never.
We now know that between 75 and 90 percent of cervical cancer (depending on the type and the research article) are considered the result of human papilloma virus (genital warts)! Not the foreskin, a virus! One we now vaccinate girls against. I am more likely to offer my 12 year old son the vaccination to reduce his cancer risk and that of his possible future partners than lopping of parts of his body.
He is 9 now, and no issues have popped up, but if there were a medical reason, we’d consider all the medical retained before going down the surgical path, much as i would with any other issue.
As parents, we all make choices, hopefully well informed. I don’t judge others, but feel strongly that my husband and I made the right choice. -
Nat August 28, 2012
My husband is, my son isn’t.
I didn’t see the point having grown up with two brothers and a father who are not cut and had no dramas. On top of that, to cut a newborn with no anesthesia seemed down right barbaric. Babies feel pain!
For me, I would rather my son wear a condom to prevent STIs.Cutting something off your body to prevent something you might get makes me ask why don’t we just remove all appendix, tonsils, toenails and so forth?
As to the argument that my son won’t look like his dad, I look at my brothers sons. One has dark hair and eyes and looks like his mother. The other one has my brothers fair skin, blue eyes and red hair. Nothing will make the other son look like dad.
Finally, I wasn’t going to take any unnecessary risks with my sons life. All surgery has a risk of death. Why take that risk for no benefit.
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Alice Shaw August 28, 2012
I don’t have sons but I wouldn’t have circumcised if I did. My mum didn’t have my brothers done and was considered quite the rebel (in the early 70′s) for her decision. Apparently, I announced to the whole neighbourhood though that I would be getting my (female) doll Netty circumcised ( I was 3).
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Kris August 28, 2012
Hubby is, but my boys aren’t & neither have had any problems so far. As long as they are taught to keep the foreskin clean, there really aren’t any issues. Of my friends, only one has had their son circumcised & that for medical reasons.
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Matt August 28, 2012
Unless you are a medical professional directly involved in this field OR you have a penis yourself, then your opinions whilst interesting are not relevant.
Mothers who say they don’t want to ‘mutilate my boy’ are being ridiculous. Get over yourselves please.
Sorry ladies whilst I am a firm believer in equality there are some arguments that you simply have no say in. -
Annie Also August 28, 2012
Point one; If you want your son ( and you are a man) circumcised YOU hold him down whilst it is done, then say it has no affect on him or you.
Point two; Alex, Nat, and especially Jennifer speak for me.
( I had to laugh at my brother back in the early 80′s. He said his son had to be ‘done’ coz he was. I said; What about our dad? He said well he is done….NO HE ISN”T says I…that shot down his argument. Dad was in WW11 and had no trouble even having to be in the Middle East, Greece etc without any washing for WEEKS! It was a matter of ‘spit and polish’ he said. My brother was done in 1946 because, mum said, ‘they’ just came and took him away and did it without asking me).
It is against the rights of the child. At least when they are 5+ they have general aneasthetic and proper care.
Father born (1918) not done, brother done, husband not done, his father and brother done, our son not done…-
Matt August 28, 2012
I did have my son circumcised. I was in the room. They use a topical anaesthesia gel so to say there is no anaesthesia is once again hysterical nonsense. The procedure was over in minutes.
I just asked my 3.5 year old son his thoughts on the topic. How does he feel about being mutilated and having his rights taken away……..his answer was “Dad Thomas the tank engine is on the TV.”
Seriously people get a grip
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Cranky Aunty August 28, 2012
I hope this isn’t flamey, but it sounds like the strongest arguments for circumcision (STD prevention and poor hygiene) could be less invasively covered through use of condoms and decent personal hygiene.
I’m not keen on the ‘culture’ argument either (accepting that I’m not part of the culture) given that exactly the same argument is used for FGM.
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Ann-Maree August 28, 2012
Regarding sexual pleasure with or without – isn’t it the actions of the man behind the organ – not the organ whether it has its foreskin or not. I have experienced inept men in both camps and extremely satisfactory men in both camps. A piece of skin does not come into the matter for a woman.
Also, my partner had to have a circumcision at age 7 due to health problems which he has always talked about as having a detrimental effect on him. Our, now 15yo, son has not been circimcised.
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Matt August 28, 2012
If your partner had his circumcision at birth he wouldn’t have had to go through any traumatic event at age 7. Just sayin…..
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Rhoda August 28, 2012
Well I was happy to leave the decision to my husband who had been around and knew a thing or two more than me.
Funny thing but my second son was delivered at the Mater in Brisbane during the 80s when there was still the odd nun wandering the corridors in full black habits. One of them came to me a day or two after giving birth to discuss this very subject. She must have been 80 if she was a day and very sweet. Advised me very kindly to have it done because she had seen too many babies brought back in months later to have it done and it was always more painful and stressful for them then. I got the impression she felt very strongly about it and really cared.
Never knew what to make of it.
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RobynMarie August 28, 2012
My husband chose as an adult to be circumcised. He has never regreted his decision and neither have I. I much prefer it this way.
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Nat August 28, 2012
Matt, as a mother, who makes decisions for her son as he is too young to give consent or otherwise, and therefore my decision, my opinion is relevant.
Also would you like to be done now just with the gel?
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Matt August 28, 2012
Nat you may not know this but the human brain is not as developed at birth as it is when you are 40 years old. I don’t remember being in my mother’s womb, nor do I remember being born but I’m sure that first lung full of cold air must have hurt like a bastard. Who knows I probably cried, screamed and yelled at the time. Maybe we should insist that all new borns are ventilated immediately to avoid the pain of using your lungs for the first time?
Of course you have the right of legal consent but your opinion on circumcision is as relevant as my opinion on the pain of child birth or period pain. How the hell would I know the first thing about it? So how the hell would you know the first thing about infant circumcision?
I’ve had it done and even I don’t remember anything at all about it. It was and is a perfectly harmless procedure and wouldn’t you know it, the American College of Pediatrics agrees with me.
Doesn’t bother me whether boys have it done or not, but let’s keep the hysterical opinion of mothers down a few notches on this subject.
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Nat August 29, 2012
I think that is a long bow to draw comparing a function our bodies are designed for to a voluntarily inflicting pain on a newborn, despite how unformed their brains may be.
I think I’ve heard the “they have unformed/ inferior brains” argument to justify many things.So is it only public health issues that you think my opinions are not relevant or is it anything you or I havent experienced? I’ve never experienced poverty so I can’t comment, I’m not a refugee so I can’t comment?
I’m not a hysterical mother. That is pretty damn insulting. I simply shared my logic behind my decision not to circumcise. Friends of mine have circumcised their sons – but wait until proper anesthesia can be used. I’m much more comfortable with that approach.
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Matt August 29, 2012
Of course you can comment. It’s just that people who have actually experienced poverty or being a refugee would have a more informed opinion than your own.
It does make me smile that a circumcised male such as myself is arguing with a woman about circumcision.
Would you like to hear my opinion on epidurals, home birthing or cesarians?-
Jason September 28, 2012
I have to agree with Matt, and believe a lot of the replies here are hysterical.
Circumcision is not major surgery and does not affect a guy long term.
I’m 21, both me and my younger brother were circumcised, and we both have no issue with it. I cant speak for my brother, but my knob is pretty sensitive so the arguments about circumcised guys not enjoying sex are without basis.
I have a 3 month old son, I had him circumcised two weeks after he was born. It was a quick 10 minute minor surgical procedure with very little blood. Yes he did cry but stopped within 5 minutes after the circumcision was done.
His head was healed about 5 days after and the cut was healed within 10 days.
It should be a decision of the parents.
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Jason September 28, 2012
I would also like to add that people who say stuff like how a circumcised boy will be in the minority because only 15 – 20% of boys are circumcised are silly.
I have mates, a few are circumcised and a few are uncircumcised. Most guys have talked about it at some stage in their life and all my mates like the way they are, both the circumcised guys and uncircumcised guys.
I have seen my mates dicks at the urinal (most guys have looked a few times) and my uncircumcised mates from what I could tell from my small glimpse had their knob out when taking a piss, skin back.
So the argument that a guy will be picked on because he “looks different” are pretty shit. When a guy is doing something with his dick, be it taking a piss or having sex, the knob is the common denominator.
When me and my mates were taking a piss, all our knobs were out, cut or uncut.
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ellenni August 29, 2012
my son of 40 plus has thanked me several times for having him circumcised. my husband of 70 is glad he was done at 50. it looks nicer too!
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ellenni August 29, 2012
matt i love you, you dont beat around the bush. i was in hospital one time where several young 20 something men were being circumcised due to infection because they didnt wash their hands. after our son was circed at birth he was brought up to me to be consoled. he was grizzling up until he latched onto the breast and then he was a happy chappy. its interesting that women are so passionate about this issue. not much mention about how it affects oral sex! hmmmm!
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Giverny Lewis August 30, 2012
Ellenni – there’s NO WAY they got infected because they ‘didn’t wash their hands’. it’s almost definitely because they DIDN’T WASH THEIR PENISES.
Young men need to be taught how to care for their bodies in the same way that women are taught (although this is often lackluster aswell). The fact that an appendage can get an infection does not mean it should be removed. Every part of our body can become infected if we don’t look after ourselves.
The foreskin serves a very particular and important role. The argument of ‘it looks nicer’ is a social construction – as most images of penises in popular culture are that of the circumcised penises, so no wonder we think it looks better than an uncircumcised one.To continue, ellenni, I’m not sure what you mean by “not much mention about how it affects oral sex”. I have had oral sex and intercourse with men both circumcised and uncircumcised and I’m a little offended by your oral sex comment (assuming that oral sex with an uncircumcised penis is somehow offensive to the senses) – if you’d like to elaborate I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
What I will say is that oral sex can be wonderful with both uncircumcised and circumcised penises. If a man is unclean, he’ll be unclean regardless of whether he has a foreskin or not.
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Linda August 31, 2012
Well, matt, I AM a doctor, and neither of my boys were circumcised. It is not actually ‘hysterical’ to admit that a newborn has rights, one of which would most surely be to not have body parts removed because adults have an opinion that it ‘looks better’ or ‘might prevent disease’. This issue in some ways hits to the heart of what it means to live is a just society- where human rights are respected. (I also believe that partents should not pierce the ears of their newborn daughters). My obligations to my sons do not merely consist of feeding and emotional nourishment- they are also to protect them, and this includes protection from permanent body modifications for any reason other than medical necessity. My newborn sons could not speak for themselves, and were incapable of autonomous consent. They therefore could not consent to have their foreskins removed, and unless the operation was necessary to preserve life, I had no right either to consent on their behalf. We all have a right to bodily integrity and to consent to procedures in an adult, informed way. This is particularly so if the procedure is elective. So, my children are now adults, and can provide informed consent, with my full supprt, should they choose to be circumcised. Their penises are now entirely theirs, to do with whatever they wish. So far, both have remained intact.
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hjkl September 8, 2012
This should be of interest to any parent of a young boy:
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MazT December 28, 2012
I wonder how many parents would still think circumcising a young baby is OK if they stayed up all night in the hospital wards hearing them cry post -op, or stand in the operating theatres hearing them cry while the procedure is done?
