GUN CONTROL: QUICK FACTS
UPDATE:
As US President Barack Obama today joins the devastated community of Newtown, Connecticut for a memorial service for those killed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre on Friday, the issue of gun control will be at forefront of the national conscience.
Police reported 27 deaths, including 20 children, six adults and the shooter, who has been named as Adam Lanza, a quiet 20 year old who took his mother’s guns, killed her at her home, then went on his killing spree at the school, before turning the gun on himself.
This has brought a barrage of calls to wind back the USA’s liberal gun laws, which uphold their Constitutional right to bear arms.
Monica Attard wrote this story about gun control in July after the Colorado mass murder tragedy – another massacre that owed its death toll to the killer’s access to semi-automatic assault weapons:
It appears that not even gun-toting Americans disagree that the US will likely remain a gun-loving nation despite the tragedy of the Colorado shootings.
Even the US gun lobby sees that as sad, shocking and tragic as the massacre of 12 theatregoers is, it was not the nation’s first or biggest gun massacre.
A memorial for those shot in the Colorado massacre. Photograph via The Australian.
Think April 2007 when Seung Hui-cho went on a shooting rampage, killing 32 people at Virginia Tech College in Blacksburg, Virginia. Or August 1986 when a former post office worker entered his old workplace in Oklahoma and shot 14 workers dead. Or December 2008 when a gunman dressed as Santa Claus killed nine guests at an LA party before killing himself. The list goes on – and on.
The rate of private gun ownership in the US is a staggering 88.8 firearms per 100 people. Between 35 and 50 percent of the world’s civilian-owned guns are owned by Americans.
Surely when some 52 million American households own roughly 270 million guns, a little sanity might not go astray.
Alas, background checks on people wanting to buys guns in Colorado – ergo, the amount of people wanting to buy guns – since the shooting, have increased 41 percent.And they’re going up elsewhere across the US.
Yet there’s little chance of meaningful discussion of the issue in an election year, despite a cautious entreaty from President Obama. The National Rifle Association has enormous political clout as it preaches to the nation’s 52 million gun-owning households, that the second amendment of the US Bill of Rights gives them not only the right to bear arms: but the right to resist any attempt to impose sane reconsideration.
It’s a big call to expect any strong leadership from the top on this one.
No doubt this is why the Colarado massacre is being reported as though gun control is not actually possible, even with strong gun laws to mimic – like ours.
We too have had our fair share of mass shootings and the road to gun reform here has been long and intensely political.
Still, Australia’s gun laws are strong.
1. Firearms, introduced at settlement, were always controlled and permitted primarily for hunting, protecting crops, in military engagement, duels and rebellions, like the 1804 Castle Hill convict uprisingand the 1854 Eureka Stockade.
2. During conflict with the indigenous population, there were many massacres – too sad, too many and too little space to do them justice. And though not all involved firearms, some did.
3. After Federation, gun laws remained the responsibility of each state and varied considerably across them.
4. But the Commonwealth was able to exercise various powers in the Constitution such as customs, military affairs and external affairs, to enforce greater regulation.
5. By the 1940s, there were restrictions in place to stop private ownership of military-style guns although rifle clubs could own them.
6. Throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s, however, there was an increase in the number of gun-related deaths, which alarmed politicians. But advice on reform was sought, it seems, primarily from shooters groups.
7. By the 1980s, frequent news reports of gun violence in the USA, along with increased gun violence here, brought the issue to prominence.
8. Between 1984 and 1996, there were many shootings. Some were massacres (defined as a shooting resulting in the death of four or more people).
9. There was the 1984 Father’s Day Milperra Massacre in western Sydney in which seven people were killed and 28 were injured when rival bike gangs turned one each other. One of those killed was a 14-year-old girl. Thirty shots were fired in 15 minutes. Recently, this grizzly event was turned into a television series for the TEN network.
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68 Responses to this article
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Tara Nipe July 30, 2012
Thank you, Monica. I believe this was one of the most decisive and important decisions made by an Australian Prime Minister in our recent history – kudos to Prime Minister Howard.
It’s interesting how comfortable Americans seem to be with compromising their other Rights in the name of national security, yet adhere to the Second Amendment with tenacity. Well, adhere to part of it – there seems to be a lot of glossing over the part about arms being borne by a well-regulated militia…
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JessB July 30, 2012
What a fascinating article, thank you Monica. It was really amazing to see everything laid out like this, especially for myself – as a younger person, I wasn’t aware of some of these events.
Also, $500 million to curtail access to “rapid firepower, semi-automatic weapons”? Cheap at twice the price. Brilliant work by the government, and outstanding leadership by Prime Minister Howard.
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Beretta Brett December 16, 2012
Your in luck. Due to inflation and time it is twice the price.
1 Billion Dollars and more than half of that shredded with nothing to show for it. Whats that…hospital waiting lists , teachers wages ect. Cry me a river. Waste and nothing less!-
vanessay December 17, 2012
It is worth noting, I think, that the money to institute the buyback scheme for guns in Australia was not part of general revenue, but was raised through a one of increase in the Medicare levy.
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Monica July 30, 2012
Hi Moiby – pointed it out simply because it is fact and part of the Bryant story. Wasn’t intended to cement fear about people in the community with intellectual disabilities.
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Simon Chapman July 30, 2012
Here is a paper I wrote with others on the 10th anniversary of the gun law reforms. It has now been 16 years without a single massacre http://tobacco.health.usyd.edu.au/assets/pdfs/Other-Research/2006InjuryPrevent.pdf
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Robyn Oyeniyi July 30, 2012
Scotland has very tight laws too, for similar reasons. Thank goodness we did do something positive about gun control.
I am horrified at the mentality of Americans that think MORE guns would have meant less people were killed. Let’s fight fire with fire and have a conflagration, rather than douse the flames with water and save lives.
Mind you, my husband, an ex-politician, said immediately on my telling him the right to bear arms is in the constitution, said “They’ll never remove guns in that situation.” I think he is right.
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Monica July 30, 2012
Thanks Simon for link to your paper… enjoyed your piece for Crikey too.
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tess August 1, 2012
I do recall NSW Labor Premier Barry Unsworth being ridiculed in regards to introduction of guns laws. The main offenders being Liberal-Country party politicans
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BP August 3, 2012
No mass shootings for 15+ years in New Zealand either despite continued availability of semi-automatic longarms – and they had their fair share up until the mid 1990s: http://www.cjcj.org/files/Mass_shootings.pdf
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Trapper August 3, 2012
Hey chapman still peddeling the crap? you are ridiculed at my uni within the criminology department.
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tikkat3 August 3, 2012
500 million waste. criminals did not obey the steal back, because criminals dont obey the law, thats why their criminals. and i call it a steal back because you cannot legally force someone to sell their possessions for less than their worth. 500million to set up firearms registries that puts law abiding firearm owners on the same database as wanted and convicted criminals. this same database whose security is somewhat questionable. the same database that costs taxpayers over $75000 a day and as not reduced gun crime in sydney one iota.
500 million dollars that would have been better spent being pumped into mental health resources. And as for the martin bryant issue who always gets brought up in these sorts of debates. Maybe someone can tell me why he was issued with a licence when he was well known to police for his mental instablility.? -
Sambo August 3, 2012
The only people who think our gun laws are a good thing are those with no real life, legal involvement with guns or the shooting sports. As a target shooter and hunter I see John Howards gun laws as a huge waste of taxpayers money ! Laws only affect the law abiding section of the community. Guns can be used to commit murder which has been a serious criminal offence for a long time yet we still see it happen. We law abiding firearms owners have to jump through a lot of pointless hoops while those who don’t respect the law and the rest of the community are not affected by any new gun laws. Why not ? because they don’t care about breaking the law ! John Howard’s useless gun control laws didn’t stop the spate of drive by shootings in Sydney did they ? What did slow it down was the arrests of certain people.
Suicide was trending down before the new laws came in, that’s been well documented in peer reviewed research. Hunting and shooting sports are the new minority for the media to pick on – the last few years has seen an all time high in anti firearms reporting. Around 500,000 LAFO’s in Australia – if guns were the problem there would be a lot more murders and suicides. -
amd August 3, 2012
Here’s a good link: the 4 most meaningless arguments against gun control – http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-4-most-meaningless-arguments-against-gun-control/
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Sambo August 3, 2012
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Phil August 3, 2012
NZ also hasn’t had any mass shootings – and they didn’t change their gun laws although they were at the same meetings. Not mentioned also is the fact that the trend line was down for firearm homicides before the howard laws – and the laws didn’t affect that trend at all. Or that suicides by other means – method substitution – actually rose post 1996, not fell. Gun owners, arguably the most vetted, lawful group in our community, were vilified (not too strong a term – look back at the media coverage) by government and the media in 1996, held collectively responsible. yet often the same people say it would be wrong to collectively hold Moslems responsible for 9/11 or the Bali bombings. (I would argue they are right on the latter point and the same principle should hold true for gun owners). Firearms are an inanimate tool, and I would argue the knee jerk reaction in 1996 went too far. Collateral damage in the form of scrapping the service rifle organisations, and destroying Australia’s reserve stocks of ex army weapons also weakens our defences (only 67,000 Steyrs to defend Australia – thats all there are – not enough) We had a million servicemen in WW2 – many of whom were taught to shoot on farms and in clubs from childhood. Suppose we face another threat like we did in 1942? Then, we might not look at the 1996 gun laws in quite the same way.
There IS another side to this debate. Lets look at both sides.
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Flip August 3, 2012
Phil:
There have been some mass shootings in NZ. Aramoana comes to mind (there was recently a film about this titled Out Of The Blue).Immediately following Aramoana, New Zealand’s gun laws were tightened, to the point where a week or so later previously ordered, vetted, and approved, firearms which were in the process of clearing customs, were prevented from officially entering the country and being distributed to the people who had ordered them.
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Phil August 3, 2012
Flip, Aramoana was 13 November 1990, 6 years BEFORE PA. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. NZ DIDN’T change their laws in 1996, do not have registration (they had it for a while and abandoned it as being not effective), and DIDN’T ban or confiscate like Australia did in 1996. They have not had any mass shootings since 1996 either. 2 similar societies, 2 different gun law regimes, no mass shooting. That being the point.
2nd point is that 9/11 and Bali show that those who wish harm to others don’t need firearms to do so.
Are we safer (ie less crime)? The crime stats and the news show we aren’t. The crims still get guns, the laws only affect the good, not the bad.
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Jeff August 3, 2012
Despite all your ‘facts’ we have a rising violent crime rate inclsuind the use of firearms in the commission of these crimes. Despite various howlings there is no direct proof that legal guns that are stolen make up any more than an inconsequential amount of illegal firearms yet no one wants to admit they have no real idea where the other 90+% come from. This smacks of an agenda other than public safety or else more time and effort would be spent finding out where they were coming from instead of punishing the people that are not the issue. I do have to chuckle at Simon’s link, I didn’t know that firearms had anything to do with tobacco studies. If you want some more information about the reality of gun control in Australia, look at http://www.ic-wish.org/ Given that most of you have your minds already made up I won’t hold my breath.
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bill August 3, 2012
yeah sure howards gun laws did a great job, vilified and persecute people who are no threat to anyone, and do bugger all about the feral scum shooting up the suburbs.
well spent half billion there, wouldnt want to waste it on mental health or employing coppers would we. howard is a lying rodent and anyone who thinks the aus gun laws are in any way effective would buy a bridge. -
dhv August 3, 2012
The downward trend in firearm related deaths started way before 1996, but let’s not let that ruin a good story.
There are holes all through this anti gun propaganda which is obvious to anyone involved with firearms.
Handguns, the weapon of choice for drive bys and bikies, have been heavily regulated in Oz since WWI.
Still Chapman and Co seek to link these crimes in western Sydney, yes, it is already against the law to shoot someone, with law abiding owners of long arms.
If regulation worked, we would have a paper trail linking each handgun used illegally back to a lawful owner and no doubt prosecutions would occur.
This is not the case. Why Simon? -
Phil August 3, 2012
Note what is missing from the above article – and ALL the articles of late on gun control. They DON’T say that the howard gun laws have resulted in less crime, less home invasions, less drive by shootings in Sydney. They don’t, because the opposite is the case. Gun laws = safer? No, NZ is safer than Australia, Israel and Switzerland arm their population, and have less crime than Australia.
Look at Israel, surrounded by enemies, and they train and arm their youth. What a difference to the politically correct, often drug dabbling and wayward youth Australia has;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWE5D52PRFo&feature=player_profilepage -
Len August 3, 2012
Switzerland – neutral and probably the most peace loving nation on earth and also one of the most heavily armed with compulsory national service and where the troops keep there govt issued semi automatic firearms at home after completing there national service ready to protect their country.
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Ros December 17, 2012
Sorry, but Swiss soldiers no longer keep their arms at home following use of such guns for suicides. So easy access to guns lead to violence whether against oneself or others.
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Chris August 3, 2012
Monica, its great to see that your research source was partly written by me. I suspect you found that page on Gun Control Australia’s website that contains a Wikipedia article rewritten by that well-known scientist and factually dispassionate researcher, John Crook. Initially I thought you had cribbed from Wikipedia but then I recognise the vaguely paranoid framing of that great and good man Mr Crook.
I notice you dont mention the effect of sensationalist journalism on creating copycat massacres, or that we had a mass school-style shooting with seven people shot in 2002; or that a certain well-known activist with good media connections spent the years from 1996 to 2002 publicising a ‘loophole’, and probably taught the Monash Uni shooter how to get his guns.
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Chris August 3, 2012
Of COURSE I want her to quote my work! The parts of mine she used are facts about history, and are not my copyright at all. Thats what being an editor in Wikipedia is. The parts she left out are framing, because her sources for later parts are activists not scientists or historians.
And thank you for correcting me rather than just disappearing my comment!
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David August 4, 2012
A balanced view Wendy? You must be joking!
What about some in depth analysis of gun crimes V’s gun regulation?
Even a superficial look shows there is no correlation between repression and gun crime. Some claim it is actually a reverse correlation!
UK = very stong regulation yet 50 gun deaths last year.
USA = patchy gun laws, with those having the strongest regulation having the highest incidence of gun crime.
Look one layer down in the US stats and you will see gun crime is almost absent in the states permitting concealed carry of handguns, and most prevelant in highly regulated areas and amongst urban based negro populations. Not PC but true!
NZ = minimal regulation and not much gun crime.
Canada = right next door to the USA and recenty disbanded its gun registry as it was found to be a massive waste of money which delivered no policy outcomes.
How about we see some of this type of balance? -
bill August 4, 2012
balance, David?? you dont get balance in ideology. thats what the antigun crowd deal in, not facts or reality. nowhere, ever, has firearm prohibition resulted in less net crime, increased public safety or any other tangible benefit.It makes the control freaks and fans of big government happy though. it makes people who cant or wont take responsibilty for themselves feel safe because the government is taking care of them.
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ben August 4, 2012
can any of you tell me the gun crime figures for incidents involving illegal firearms v legal firearms
fix the problems ie mental health and poor sentencing of criminals not punish the law abiding again and again
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Chris September 4, 2012
Well sorry Ben, I didn’t get back to you on the question. http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/A/D/3/%7BAD36E187-1F6F-426D-9E58-B6926D3450F7%7Dtandi361.pdf
Criminal use of Handguns in Australia, from the Australian Inst of Criminology: 15% of firearms murderers had a gun licence – and since that means about 4 murderers per year out of 850,000 licensed owners, it means the genteel sneerers of the media and academia are every bit as likely to murder as any redneck gun owner.
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Lucille December 16, 2012
Like it or not, the U.S.A. is a violent society. They are a country who glorifies war. They are a country who glorify guns. They are a country who glorify oil. And they are a country who glorify money. Guns, drugs and wars have made many Americans rich, and they are, in most cases, the god fearing fundamentalist christians. I look at so-called third world countries and hate their fundamentalist extreme religions, but have to say the the States is not far behind. You praise your soldiers, who, once they return from wars, are ignored. Your culture is based on the 2nd Amendment. When was that? In the 1700s, when militias were formed against the English. The weapons weren’t automatic rifles with clips that could mow down tens of people in one sweep. They were muskets which took a couple of minutes to reload between shots. By all means, keep the muskets, but don’t equate the “right to bear arms” with automatic weapons. If you must have guns, treat the use of them as you would a car. Learn how to use them, pass a test and get a license. Have the license renewed every couple of years. Charge any illegal suppliers of weapons with murder, if a gun is traced to them after a massacre. When I was in the states in July/August there were five mass shootings in five weeks. I have to say that most of the people I was with are for gun control, but perhaps not as shocked as I was, as it certainly happens in the States more frequently. My heart goes out to the latest victims and their families, but prayers won’t solve anything – action will. Maybe if those in need of psychiatric care could access it as easily as it is to access weapons, your country may be the leader it professes to be. (Hey, I love my merkin friends by the way.)
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cra December 22, 2012
Lucille,
Which of the recent shooters was a christian? Why do you fundamentalist atheist maxists always attack christians? There are over 100,000 million christians in the u.s. If we were largely warmongering murderers, wouldn’t we all be dead in the states by now? And its rich, since you pinkos are responsible for millions upon millions of the murdered unborne.
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Lucille December 22, 2012
Cra are you talking to me? There is not one reference to Christians in my post. I think you are delusional, and a fundie no doubt. Time to evolve cra.
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Jill December 25, 2012
@Lucille.
You said in your second post:
“Cra are you talking to me? There is not one reference to Christians in my post. I think you are delusional, and a fundie no doubt. Time to evolve cra.”In your original post you say this:
“… Guns, drugs and wars have made many Americans rich, and they are, in most cases, the god fearing fundamentalist christians. ”You owe Cra an apology.
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Rhoda December 16, 2012
I was in a shopping mall in Rockhampton some years ago and a guard? was doing his rounds. He had a gun in a holster and the holster wasn’t properly secured. I could have reached and grabbed his gun no problem. I am so anti gun that I left the building immediately and rang management to tell them. Haven’t a clue what happened then.
Dear dear friends lost their only son to a shotgun. It was a suicide but the gun was in the house – it was available. Locked up as required by law. He was 16. His father has never recovered. They were a dear dear family and he was loved – truly loved. My son who was his friend suspects – only suspects – and for reasons I won’t go into here –
that he was gay and couldn’t live with it or had been molested by a pedophile.I hate guns with passion. I will support anyone, any motion, to rid the earth of them – and of bombs, grenades – all killing instruments. The rhetoric from the pro gun lobby is astounding in it’s blind madness. If you are not convinced then read some of it. I promise you will be utterly appalled.
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vanessay December 17, 2012
Once again arguments appear from people who think their right to own weapons whose ONLY purpose can be to kill other people comes before the rights of others to go about their lives in peace and quiet. And do not give me crap about hunting, these weapons are not necessary for hunting, or target shooting or any other purpose. If you own, or defend the rights of others to own, these weapons ask yourself why. How does society benefit from having these weapons in the community? How many children have to die before you realize that it is not in anyone’s best interests for these weapons to be in the community?
I am definitely not a huge fan of John Howard’s but I was so happy when he acted decisively on this issue. I do not care how much money it cost, it was worth it.
And if one person says “guns do not kill people, people kill people” or “cars kill people and we don’t talk about getting rid of them” I think their comments should be removed straight away. Those arguments are so cliche and they do not even make sense. -
nicky karunarathna December 17, 2012
God,Gun and Bible – it is lethal combination. That’s how Holy Wars, Crusades, Inqusitions,Conquor, Pillage and Plunder done throughout the history and killing machine worked. So give Americans more guns(most powerful ones), and give more bibles and build more churches – they will kill themslef to a finish. Americans are cancer to the world. With them no peace can be achieve in this world. And never. See last year arms sales, 80% done by them.Out of this 50% been sold to foolish Saudis after looting their oil. Entire planet been garrison by US including Australia and over the skies their eyes with drones. Every 131people living US one in prison; 95% suffuring form paranoid schezoprinia and highest infant mortality rate in developed world. And they talk big. Can you believe this? In economic terms $ 16 trillion in debt to the world and out this $ 3 trillion to China alone. You cannot civlize this barbarians. The only answer is give them more assualt rifles and bibles to kill each other. If they can kill their beautiful flowers like children in multiple shooting like this, no wonder half a million children killed in Iraq alone during the sanctions and war times. When, then Secretary of state asked about half million children killed in Iraq by a BBC reporter by US, and asked is it worth – she said it is still worth it. Maralyn Albright is her name!
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Royce December 17, 2012
From my undertanding of the US situation… Gun Control while desparately needed has no chance of getting very far…. sadly Control of the Mentally Ill…. or at least better support may be a more effective way to ease the situation…..
Meanwhile a multi denominational service is being held, with the ever so Christian President attending.
Pity God wasn’t able to just stop this crap happening… but the he she or it would have to exist for that!
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Don December 17, 2012
Australian’s find America’s gun culture quiet bewildering even bizarre – why are American’s so afraid of each other that they need to be armed to the teeth?
In Australia, like most other developed countries, it’s extremely rare to see someone packing a gun or even owning a gun. I am in my 50”s and I never in my life ever seen someone carrying a gun other than our police. Gun shops must exist in Australia, but I have never ever seen one. There just isn’t the gun culture in Australia that exists in America! -
anna December 17, 2012
what about the gun producers sellers etc, they didn’t pull the trigger but are they somewhat morally something?? making money from fear! God didn’t pull the trigger a disturbed soul did that, he got what he wanted and it was so selfish of him.
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the*sparrow December 17, 2012
I was never a supporter of Mr Howard, but the gun buy back scheme was brilliant, and as more time passes it only gets better and better.
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ro.watson December 17, 2012
I gather there are some exceptions and/or loopholes which allow some people to own automatic and semi-automatic hand guns in Australia. I want these weapons banned. I don’t care if Australia never wins another Olympic or other medal in shooting “sports”.
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moorie December 17, 2012
I personally detest John Howard but I agree this decision was a good one. Unfortunately guns are just as easy to buy on the street as a loaf of bread but only if you know where to go. You can’t just rock up to the local Kmart and buy one which is something we are all grateful for…
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ro.watson December 17, 2012
For what it is worth~ I appreciate your comments Lucille.In Australia, the High Court has implied certain rights in our Constitution, given how much we have changed as a society over the years. The U.S has things to learn from others, and I hope their citizens and governance, do.
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Linda Robinson December 17, 2012
What about farmers who need to humanely put down sick animals- don’t they have the right to own a gun? Not everyone who has a gun is irresponsible! You have to have a permit and a gun licence and pay through the nose for them. A lot of these semi-automatics aren’t necessary but if you ban all guns you have problems too.
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ro.watson December 17, 2012
Linda R.~ yes I get farmers may need to put down sick animals. They do not require automatic or semi-automatic guns to do this sad task.
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Linda Robinson December 17, 2012
I realise this; however a lot of people seem to be on the “all guns are bad- ban all guns” bandwagon. I am stating that there can be a purpose to SOME guns that is not killing innocent people.
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ro.watson December 17, 2012
Yip~ I get what you are saying Linda.R~ I also get a gun makes it easier to kill or intimidate an unloved spouse or kill oneself in an ugly way.
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ro.watson December 18, 2012
I heard an apt analogy about gun control in the U.S~ at the time of the making of the U.S constitution~ slavery was still happening~ slavery eventually was banned.
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Linda Robinson December 18, 2012
Perhaps we need to spend more time on WHY people feel the need to use guns eg mental health issues instead of arguing pros and cons of gun use. I am not excusing the shooter;just saying mental health is a big issue being swept under the carpet. In Victoria alone not enough is being done- more staff needed. Also by going on and on about it the media are ensuring more publicity for the shooter than the grieving families- how many victims names will we remember in 6 months time realistically? The media are just going to spur someone else on to try and outdo this shooters number of victims.
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Rhoda December 18, 2012
“Firearms are an inanimate tool” – yes until someone pulls the trigger. A car is an inanimate tool also until someone turns the key in the ignition.
You can rationalize anything. The NRA has it down pat. US citizens fell for their story line hook line and sinker. The citizens of any small town in America have to listen to gunshots all day every day. Weapon ranges are so close and so many want to get out there and fire bullets for practice or the hell of it. No one would know if it was target practice or if someone was actually being shot. Such is the American dream.
I cannot understand it.
America has lost its way and the link between ‘religious’ organizations and the arms industry should be explored and exposed.
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Jill December 22, 2012
One iof the biggest massacres in America occurred on 9/11 by 19 Muslims with a plane and some boxcutters. Don’t notice anyone calling for the ban of boxcutters or Muslims.
or planes.Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
People get killed all the time by idiots in cars. Where is the call to ban cars?
People get bashed an killed by alhcool-drinkers. Call to ban alcohol? No.Interesting.
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vanessay December 22, 2012
Jill, the sole purpose of guns is to hurt or kill people or animals. Guns do not provide transport, are not a faith, do not provide transport between countries and do not open boxes. The sole purpose of cars, Muslims, planes or box cutters is not to hurt people or animals. See the difference there.
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Jill December 25, 2012
Vanessa, your attempted rebuttal of my point is futile. various innocuous instruments like pocket knives and nail cutters have been confiscated from people on planes because of the use of boxcutters by islamic jihadis as weapons.
The fact remains that in no other circumstances except regarding the mass killings in America have i ever seen the call to ban gun use – only for Amercia.
I have not seen a call to ban guns in Nigeria, where Islamisist are massacring Christians, nor to ban the torture chambers of the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt – a recent refinement, nor to ban mass killings in school in China or in Israel.
Maybe I should read the news more, but this kind of outpouring of rage I ahve only seen against the guns in Amercia.
i certainyl have seen nothing here or anywhere else calling for the disarming of the gangsters in South Western Sydney or in the northern suburnbs of melbourne, where Muslimss ahve been indulging in gunplay and gang warfare for quite a while.
And though the guns were taken away – or bought – from the people of Australia, I didn’t notice that reducing the
gangland killings by the Moran/Williams groups in their Underbelly-type activities.Vanessa, you left out the other purpose of guns – as self-defence.
While I’m no fan of wild use of guns, and find accidents related to them regrattable and tragic – like many other accidents – the fact remains that this guy was nuts, and every act he did with his weaponry
was illegal – he stole the guns, used them illegally, illegally trespassed on the school grounds etc.
Your reasoning is spurious. the fact is that if someone is mental – as this killer was – he will use anything that will achieve his purpose of dead people, including boxcutters and jet aeroplanes.
And yes, people use guns to kill animals – they generally kill animals they will eat ie for food.As for Obama, I wonder if Monica Attard is aware of this “quick fact” – that his daughters attend a school which uses armed guards – armed with GUNS -to protect the kids:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23/School-Obama-s-Daughters-Attend-Has-11-Armed-Guards-Not-Counting-Secret-Service
Some interesting news has broken in the wake of the latest push for gun control by President Obama and Senate Democrats: Obama sends his kids to a school where armed guards are used as a matter of fact.The school, Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC, has 11 security officers and is seeking to hire a new police officer as we speak.
If you dismiss this by saying, “Of course they have armed guards — they get Secret Service protection,” then you’ve missed the larger point.
The larger point is that this is standard operating procedure for the school, period. And this is the reason people like NBC’s David Gregory send their kids to Sidwell, they know their kids will be protected from the carnage that befell kids at a school where armed guards weren’t used (and weren’t even allowed).
Shame on President Obama for seeking more gun control and for trying to prevent the parents of other school children from doing what he has clearly done for his own. His children sit under the protection guns afford, while the children of regular Americans are sacrificed.
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vanessay January 1, 2013
Jill, think very carefully about why you consider it necessary to defend the rights of ordinary citizens in any country to own guns. It is true that criminals use guns to kill each other and that they acquire these guns illegally. That does not mean that I need a gun to protect myself from them. The Moran/Williams group (even while alive) posed no threat to me.
The guns used by the Sandy Hook killer were obtained legally, albeit, not by him, and were stored in in his home.
The call for gun control in the wake of the killing of these poor children is world wide, just because it was triggered by this latest outrage does not necessarily mean that people like myself do not want to see the banning of guns and torture in all parts of the world.
You take a great many liberties in your argument calling my argument futile and spurious. However, in the end, your argument rings with the same tone of all such arguments. That is; “no one is going to take away my right to own a device whose SOLE purpose is to maim and kill people and animals”.
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ro.watson January 1, 2013
Guns hurt people. Guns threaten people in domestic situations.
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William W January 6, 2013
All of this is moot. The 2nd amendment gives the right to bear arms in the US. That is a constitutional issue, that CANNOT be undone without passing another amendment repealing it, which would require WIDESPREAD support by an overwhelmingly large percent of the population to make happen.
It won’t.
Thankfully.
Banning guns wouldn’t have stopped this from happening, it would have just meant it would have happened with another weapon.
In China like a week after sandy hook, a mentally ill man stabbed 22 school children and an adult in a murder spree. He didn’t need a gun to kill those young kids. Guns being less available there didn’t stop him from committing a mass murder.A mentally ill person who sets out to commit a spree of violence will find a way to do it, gun or not.
What we REALLY need to focus on, and what can actually HELP prevent situations like this, is to stop dealing with mental health problems by locking people up and start a national discussion on fixing the mental health care system in the US. This mother has it right:
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html -
SERENA January 10, 2013
William W. you need to get your facts straight … non of the 22 school children in China DIED when the mentally ill man went on his killing spree with a knife … in Sandy Hook 20 children are dead … SHOT dead … with avery high powered GUNS.
Adam Lanza was a teenager who had never been in any trouble … sure, he was weird/ troubled … but heck how many teenagers do you know who are weird … gosh, my own sons went through a period of ‘weirdness’ with lots of meltdowns … puberty is a time of great stress and angst … and fortunately here in Australia we don’t have such easy access to guns … !
