masa_inset_1agiac7-1agiach-1

DON’T, DON’T, DON’T … GET YOURSELF KILLED

There are a myriad ways NOT to be killed.

If you’re like 17 year-old Masa Vukotic, who was stabbed to death this week in suburban Doncaster, Melbourne, while taking a walk in a park in the early evening, less than a kilometre from her home, you may have not got the message: “Females Shouldn’t Be Alone in Parks”.

“I suggest to people, particularly females, they shouldn’t be alone in parks,” Victorian Homicide Squad Inspector, Mick Hughes told Fairfax newspapers. “I’m sorry to say that is the case.”

Victorian Minister for Women and Minister for Prevention of Family Violence, Fiona Richardson, later said that the community’s focus should be on stopping offenders, not the behaviour of victims.

“Detective Inspector Hughes, undoubtedly, has the best interest of women in mind and made comments on radio this morning out of care and concern for women who are all too often victims of crime,” she said.

“However, hearing a senior police officer say that as a woman, you are not safe going about your leisure activities or daily business, is a sad indictment on our society. The community conversation needs to be about stopping men from committing these terrible crimes in the first place, not just about women needing to protect themselves.”

Asked at a later press conference, after a man handed himself over to police in relation to Masa’s killing, Inspector Hughes refuted that police were victim-blaming by telling women not to walk alone.

“We’ve never actually said that,” he said.

He encouraged people to walk together. More specifically, that “females” walk together.

For women who may have missed the memo, JANE GILMORE has come up with a comprehensive list for all women and girls on how to prevent themselves from becoming victims of murder… Do pass it on.

How to not be killed:

Don’t go to parks because someone might kill you.

Don’t stay home, that’s where you are most likely to be killed.

Don’t catch public transport.

Don’t catch taxis or walk home or drive cars by yourself at night.

Don’t have a boyfriend or a husband because he is the most likely person to kill you.

Don’t go out without your boyfriend because you might get killed if you don’t have someone to protect you.

Don’t go out for a run by yourself.

Don’t stay home, you’ve got to burn those calories somehow.

Don’t be fat because then no one will care if someone kills you.

Don’t be pretty because that will definitely make someone want to kill you.

If you’re not pretty you should want to kill yourself.

Don’t laugh too loud or drink too much or dance too freely.

Don’t wear shorts or skimpy dresses.

Why are you covered up like that, are you Amish or something?

Don’t wear headscarf, hijabs or anything else that might identify you as a Muslim or Jew.

Don’t deny your heritage.

Why haven’t you disavowed people who we think will kill us?

We should kill you for that.

Don’t kiss any boys.

Don’t be a tease.

Don’t be a slut.

Don’t interrupt.

Don’t talk too much.

Don’t be boring.

Don’t answer back.

Don’t sit by yourself like that.

Give us a smile, love.

Don’t be too forward.

Don’t be too young, that makes you too vulnerable.

Don’t be too old.

Don’t have long hair, you’re too old.

Don’t show your face if it’s got wrinkles on it.

Don’t speak out.

Don’t take up too much space.

Don’t draw attention to yourself.

Why are you dressed like that?

Don’t get tattoos.

Don’t be a lesbian.

Don’t be transwoman.

Don’t be Aboriginal.

Don’t get married.

Why aren’t you married yet?

Don’t go out in public.

Don’t talk to boys.

Don’t wear too much make up, you look like a whore.

Why don’t you make some effort to look better?

Don’t have any hair on your body.

Don’t get rid of your body hair, why are you so vain?

Would it kill you to be nice?

Don’t go to nightclubs.

Don’t go to concerts.

Stay away from the mosh pit.

What did you think was going to happen if you go out dressed like that?

Don’t make him mad.

Don’t drink too much.

Always look behind you.

Make sure you watch where you’re going.

Why weren’t you more security conscious?

Don’t wear headphones.

Don’t run in shorts, that’s just asking for trouble.

Don’t talk to strangers.

Don’t go out.

Don’t stay home.

Don’t be female or you will be killed and you will have no one to blame but youself.

And men, as you were. Just carry on. This is not your problem.

 

*cover image via Facebook

jane-gilmore*Jane Gilmore was the founding editor of The King’s Tribune. She is now a freelance writer and is tackling her first book.

Twitter handle:@JaneTribune 

 

Follow us on

209 Comments

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Erica

    I don’t usually comment on published articles, but this is absolutely disgusting and insensitive.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Gareth H

      i think you are far too sensitive tbh and miss the message entirely

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Melissa

      How?

      • Reply March 25, 2015

        Trevor

        Using this poor girls private photo from her facebook page is disgusting. Imagine how her family would feel seeing her used this way. Tasteless is an understatement
        .

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lisa

      Insensitive you just tarnished two women in the process.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        joey

        Lisa, it’s more insensitive to tarnish all Australian men with the same brush as has been done here.

        I’m looking forward to walking home alone and having woman run away from me. I prefer solace anyway

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          miss poison oak of 1929

          So your natural privilege being born male and free to walk home alone without threat becomes much more pleasurable because women in your path who wish you no harm prefer to avoid you because of national statistics? Wow. Welcome to another sliver of the male psych. I’m using your last quote in my screenplay.

          • March 28, 2015

            uncle monty

            Walk home without threat????!!? I wish my best mate had actually had that “privilege” when he was beaten to a fucking pulp on his way home alone!

        • Reply March 22, 2015

          skram

          2 Australian women are killed on average by their partner or ex partner every. single. week.
          That says nothing for the sexual harassment, the leers, the groping on crowded trains, the fear you feel if a strange man starts walking behind you on a quiet street, the rapes…
          So you go on and find your solitude HILARIOUS, because the endemic violence the women of Australia face day in day out is just sooooo loltastic.
          Oops, I meant DIAF.

        • Reply March 23, 2015

          Megan

          And please tell me *exactly* how it is a woman is to know if you are dangerous or not? Or is your being sad more important than the fact that men ARE the most likely danger to women? Are you going to get angry if a woman avoids you, because that’s sure a *great* way to show that you aren’t dangerous; it would *totally* work.

          Surprise! Women aren’t psychic. They can’t tell if you’re a rapist/murderer or not. If you don’t want women to be overly cautious around men, because of your giant sadded feefees, then start going after the men who cause us to be so cautious. Call out inappropriate behaviour. Don’t tolerate cat-calls, or men who get angry when we don’t smile at them, or perform some other behaviour that they wish us to do on command. Don’t allow a man to get a woman black-out drunk, and especially don’t let him get away with having sex with (read: rape) a woman who is unable to consent because of her intoxication level. Don’t tolerate abusive language directed at women. And don’t tolerate men who think their feelings are more important than a woman’s safety.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Christopher

        How?

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Erica

      This is not me! Erica. I love this article. Right on!

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Vic

      Too may commars In paragraph one.

      • Reply September 17, 2015

        Cardso

        There’s always a grammar nazi!

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Garfunkle

      You act like they weren’t trying to find the guy responsible. It’s responsible to warn girls how to practically stay safe in the real world. The world had always been like this and it sucks but what would you prefer? The cop didn’t try to educate people on how to be safe?

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Anwyn

        But he didn’t tell *people* not to walk in the park, he told *females*.

        Look, when a bloke gets knifed in a park, there is usually some discussion about ‘was he the sort of person who is involved with violent criminal types?’ And if the conclusion is no, it was random, then *all* the focus is on the bastard who did it. There is never any suggestion that other men should avoid going to the place where he was stabbed.

        But when a woman is attacked…

        • Reply March 24, 2015

          Sal

          You can take the safety advice. Or, you can choose to ignore it.

          All the self-righteous indignation in the world won’t change the fact that there are a small number of psychopaths out there.

        • Reply April 4, 2015

          Sweeney

          Great point Anwyn and I agree. But as a make I have never in my life felt unsafe walking through a park and have never been attacked or threatened while doing it. Parks are more dangerous for women than men, and we can’t deny that fact. So the safety discourse after an attack like this should reflect that. I think you make a good point, but I don’t think the cop was victim blaming in this case. I heard a lot of talk about the evil bastard who did it etc.. But re the guys who’ve been stabbed, you say there is talk of ‘was he involved with these kinda of people etc’ – I dont think that is necessarily victim blaming either, but it would be called it of it was said about female victims. Obviously I think it is totally unfair and disgusting that women are less safe than men when alone at night in public…

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        miss poison oak of1929

        How come they never reinforce it for men? Next time men go out drinking and the phenomena of someone gets the coward punch to the head again I expect the police to come out and say men should steer clear of pubs. Or during the Sydney siege perhaps the public should never go to cafes again.

    • Reply March 22, 2015

      Renee

      Insensitive to whom? I hope to God you aren’t a mother of sons! If you are-please bring them up to be the kind of men we mothers of daughters want our daughters to know and respect as human beings.
      The article was meant to be ironic- to point a finger at society to make society think about the very real problems women and girls face on a daily basis.

    • Reply March 25, 2015

      Maria

      Jane, I hear what you say. However, please don’t blame Detective Inspector Hughes – that’s shooting the messenger. Look at the big picture and our society. On the day the murder was still being investigated, in the hours prior to Sean Price handing himself in to police, I was visiting a family member who lives opposite a nearby paddock, in Doncaster, where DI Hughes, his team of detectives, and SES workers, were tirelessly following up on leads. With the murderer still out on the loose, the detective’s words were therefore appropriate, timely, and prudent. Criticizing the words of Inspector Hughes, is missing the point, unwarranted, and misguided. Instead, take a long hard, critical look at society – and how women are objectified across the media (in magazines, film, even politics). You only have to look at the way a woman’s body is treated across the media – and women are often the ones doing the objectification (look at red carpet scrutiny of what they wear, have they botoxed or not botoxed, or should they?). But please don’t criticize a member of the police who is working dam hard, and doing their job.

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Heidi

    This is superbly brilliant!!!!

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      joey

      Since we’re blaming the Police commissioner for giving the same advice that your mother would give you… let’s put the blame where it squarely lies.

      This young mans mother. Who obviously failed in her civic duties to create and nurture a human being that doesn’t rape and murder strangers.

      We need mothership tests to ensure that people of this caliber don’t procreate and create an even more unsafe society.

      I’m hoping whoever reads this can see the irony. I’m obviously not serious.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        M

        Why not also his father for not raising him correctly. Why only the mother?

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        NSes

        Indeed. Never forget: it’s always a woman’s fault.

        Too progressive to blame female victims? No problem! Blame the female closest to the perpetrator instead! His mum! (Never ever ever the perp’s dad, because dads aren’t responsible for parenting children.)

        Good job all around. Well fucking done.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Nicole

        And what about a father???? Is it solely the responsibility of a mother to raise and nurture their children?? Fathers set the example for their sons and how to treat women by the way they themselves interact and treat women in front of their sons. Treating any woman with disrespect of any kind will show sons that women aren’t worth their respect. Raising a hand in violence against a woman shows sons that it’s ok to do the same. Talking about women violently or disrespectfully again, shows that it’s ok to have those thoughts and feelings. I would say a father’s role is almost MORE important than a mother’s in this case. Don’t throw this responsibility only at mothers!

    • Reply March 25, 2015

      Trevor

      The girl is not even buried, how would you feel if this was your sister would it be superbly brilliant then?

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Lyn

    Sigh.

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Claire Kulyk

    Confronting article and hits hard. It is totally abhorrent what has happened of late to two very innocent women walking in parks and I feel the police are simply trying to protect the community as a whole particularly whilst they are still looking for the killers. I have three daughters and yes I advise them to walk home in a group, to call if ever they are stranded and to be constantly vigilant whilst traveling alone. This isn’t victim blaming, it’s fact and I’m sorry I’ll continue to do this because throughout history some men have targeted females for unprovoked violence. Btw I warn my 18 yr son living alone in Sydney to walk with friends, be careful how much he drinks, walk in well lit areas, be vigilant because there are those out there who might cause harm when you least expect it. My heart breaks for anyone who has ever lost a child or loved one to violence.

    • Reply March 19, 2015

      Claire Drake

      You’ve forgotten to warn your son not to rape and kill women. And just to be on the safe side, it’s probably best if he adheres to a strict curfew so that women and girls can roam around safely.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Christopher

        Are you serious?

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          Anwyn

          Why not? It’s precisely as sensible as giving the above-mentioned advice to women.

          Stop and think about it for a moment. Which would reduce more violence, a curfew for women or a curfew for men?

          And after you’ve thought about that, think about which would be harder to enforce. Be honest.

          Now you know why the response is to tell women to somehow protect themselves, instead of telling men not to be perpetrators. Path of least resistance – not the path of most effect.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Dee

      They have found the killer and had found him before for crimes against women and let him go. Also the statement was ‘Women should not be alone in parks.’ Finite. Not ‘stay away from parks in the area while we look for a killer’.

      And ditto what Claire said, maybe the statement should have been men should not rape and kill women they see alone in parks.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Suzanne Ingleton

        this man has raped and abused women since he was 17. read the Age article. he was got off by his lawyer and sent to a hospital to have some sort of medicine!
        Men supporting men.

        • Reply March 20, 2015

          joey

          It’s lawyers doing their job. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. There are plenty of female lawyers out there too, y’know.

          They enjoy getting paid by the state to defend the undefinable as well. As it’s their job and LEGAL obligation to do so.

        • Reply March 20, 2015

          Christopher

          Suzanne, are you presuming this mans lawyer was another man? Do you know that this murderers lawyer wasn’t a woman?

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Claire Drake

        It’s men who should shut themselves away in case they feel the urge to kill.

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Nat

    Men are more often the victims of violence so this really does apply to us. And we love women, so it is our problem too.
    Can you put this to a beat and make a parody of that U2 song “Numb”? Cheers

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Gareth H

      typical male replies how it should be all about the men, you make me ashamed to have a pair of testicles

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Lucas Sherry

        Dont be ashamed of yourself or your body. Its more healthy to be ashamed that Nat has a pair of testicles.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Anwyn

        Actually, it’s not all about the men. It should be about women too, because whether we like it or not, we need to acknowledge that part of the problem is women teaching other women to be victims. Men may be the perpetrators of violence in the main, but we don’t teach women how to deal with that.
        We take pride in teaching boys to be brave, to stand up for themselves. We respect them when they conquer their fear; ‘fearless’ is a term of respect.
        We teach our girls to carry keys in their fists, ‘to protect themselves’, and then tell them off for fighting. We tell them to look good, to fit in with social norms, and then we teach them not to walk alone, not to leave their drinks unattended, not to go out with people they don’t know, etc and endless etc.

        We absolutely need to be talking about violence and about ending men’s part in it. But we *have* to stop teaching girls to be afraid. Because the bottom line is, you can’t control anyone but yourself; if someone else is going to hurt you, they will hurt you. It’s our choice whether or not we live a life in fear, making victims of ourselves before anyone else can.

        The two changes have to go hand in hand.

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Taylor Project

    Similar sentiment to a song of ours from last year, “good women”: http://taylorproject.com.au/track/good-women

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Philip

    Utterly brilliant Jane. I can hardly bear to think of this young woman and her family just now let alone think of an ‘answer’ or ideas about what the good men in the world can do to help stop such evil, but there’s no way ANY man, any brother, any father, any uncle could read this and think it’s ‘nothing to do with me’. Huge thanks.

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Many Men

    lets take a comment and misconstrue it to our own feminist agenda. The comment was made because with the intention to promote safety. Yes, women shouldn’t have to be extra cautious as opposed to men, and in an optimal world this would be so, but the fact remains that women are the victims more often than men and a men usually the perpetrators (excuse my generalisation) and naturally a woman alone would be more vulnerable given the circumstances. It wasn’t a comment meant to offend or devalue a woman’s rights to do as they please. So please by all means promote your feminist propaganda, just don’t use a comment by a police officer who wishes to promote safety in an attempt to avoid further incidents like and twist it into something that wasn’t intended.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      etoile

      The thing is, the police are not sharing innovative new ways for women to keep safe. We know all this. We have known this since we’ve been about 10. It doesn’t keep us safe. It’s not even practical. Would you honestly have told a 17 year old girl not to go to the park in broad daylight? If I followed this advice, I should stop taking my 4 year old to the park in the middle of the day, since we’re there alone and someone might attack us. Is that really how women should live their lives?

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Melissa

      If they want to promote safety they should tell men to stay home and stay the f*** away from women. That would make things safer for us.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Gem

        Great solution.

        Should we now write an article about what men should not do based on your misconceived statement? Let’s have a pro man movement to extinguish the unfairness towards men and the generalisation that men only commit crimes.

        Good one, I salute you.

        But I digress, you’ve missed the point and I’ve wasted my time dignifying this with a response.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Joe

        Clearly the best way to fight misogyny is misandry. ….

        Way to fail feminism 101.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Reality

      The problem is, as people have pointed out, it IS, apparently, a reality that a young woman can’t walk in a park in Doncaster without getting stabbed to death by a known violent offender who was allowed to roam the streets. Therefore, we need to change this reality. Telling women to wear armour and bring a bodyguard isn’t really a solution. The problem is with apologists for “that’s the way it is”. How is it that people are happy living in a world where “that’s the way it is”, and why are people so resistant to changing the way things are?

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Claire Drake

      But why can’t he promote safety by asking men to restrict their freedom instead of women?

      Eg, “Since the biggest threat to women’s safety is men, I advise men not to go anywhere alone in case they have the sudden urge to kill. I advise men to be vigilant because women are everywhere and you may feel like raping one of them.”

      Isn’t it funny how it sounds like nonsense when directed at men but is suddenly so reasonable when directed at women? That’s rape culture for you.

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Stephen

    Was thinking that this was going to be a good article, until it was ruined with the closing statement “And men, as you were. Just carry on. This is not your problem.”
    It’s unfortunate that this behaviour exist but it is unfair to say that men don’t ever become the victim of any of these crimes
    This hit a nerve with me, growing up around some pretty eccentric areas where sexual harassment may come in the form of a knife for rejecting a woman

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Paula

      “it is unfair to say that men don’t ever become the victim of any of these crimes”

      Men, as a rule, tend not to become victims of violence against women.

      No-one is asking you to give up your right to be upset about violence against men, or just violence in general, but that is not actually the same issue.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Annie

      You know what’s unfair, Stephen?
      It’s unfair that police and government (predominantly men) took proactive steps to create laws aimed at protecting men after there had been a couple of unprovoked attacks that killed men. Instead of telling all men not to walk alone they took action.

      When a woman is killed all women are told to protect themselves and to not walk alone. They’re told to modify their behaviours and to live in fear.

      Why change laws to protect men only?

      Why not change laws to protect women too?

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Ruz

        As far as I know there are laws that protect men and women from violence equally. . mind you they are equally ineffective at protecting both. . but blame the bleeding heart PC crowd for that one.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Gem

        Can you please elaborate on the changes in law that were implemented after men were killed?

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          etoile

          The ‘coward punch’ laws. I presume you know how to google.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        steve

        Mate, I studied law and there is more law aimed at protecting women than men. Skim the table of the vic crimes act. Ya turkey, lets at least have an accurate discussion.

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    mkr

    Your ideology and ignorance is not helping female victims of male violence

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Louisew

    This is such a critically important article.
    Whilst it may cause ‘offense’ to some, it bravely ‘calls out’ the double standards and value judgments afforded to women and the societal abdication of the problem and blame shifting. More of this ‘calling out’ of bullshit is required if we are ever to see any change.
    More power to you Jane Gilmore.
    (And Masa I will continue to walk freely in parks in your name.)

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Victoria Sawyer

    While this might be slightly amusing, I do think that women need to protect themselves from attack. We can’t control the men who do these things. How can we control them? How can we find them? How can we know who will commit crimes? Sometimes it’s the good looking confident man, sometimes it’s not. There’s no easy way. The only thing we have control over is our own behavior. I agree, it absolutely SUCKS that we have to be careful. I hate that. I hate it with a passion, however if you don’t want to end up dead, then it’s something you might have to do. Having to be careful does feel like a form of control or sexism, but what can we do? We’re not stronger than males, for the most part. And people with either mental illness or the penchant for murder are not easy to spot. Yes, maybe the police should be more aware but how can they just start profiling people who are not breaking the law or doing anything strange. Again, the only control you actually have is to try to be safe. It sucks, but it’s better than being dead.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      “How can we control them? How can we find them? How can we know who will commit crimes?” Well one obvious place to start would be to actually take violence against women seriously, and to charge and convict men who engage in it so they aren’t free to walk the streets victimizing women as they please. Just as psychopathic murderers often start small (torturing and killing animals, for example), chauvinistic murderers often start small by harassing, stalking, and assaulting women. Until the police actually takes these things seriously (i.e. do their damn job) they have no right to go around telling women they are wrong for using public space. The police (and you) should be ashamed.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Fancypants

      Yes, acknowledging that the world is not without dangers and some of these dangers can be lessened is not victim-blaming. Yes, the judicial system lets us down. But whatever the penalties or bail laws, or no matter how much we instil into people that they should respect others, there are always going to be some really nasty, evil creeps out there. And what about the person who’s about to commit his first offence? Yes, the world isn’t always fair. Don’t be scared, but be common sense careful.

  • Reply March 19, 2015

    Jimmy

    Way to miss the point. Why didn’t you take the part where he said we should look out for each other? Instead of whipping up a frenzy?

    You had a chance here to do something good and you squandered it. As women we do need to be more aware, be careful.
    We should be able to walk around safely, but the reality is we can’t. So while you whine, I’ll be learning how to defend myself. Helping to empower the women around me and building them up, instead of the foolishness of your little blog post.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      No you have missed the point. The point is that it is the job of the police to look out for and stop violence against women. If we lived in a world where the police and prosecutors actually cared about violence against women and worked as hard as they could to end it, and then asked women to also do their best to protect themselves, that would be one thing. But we don’t. We live in a world where violence against women is accepted as normal, inevitable, etc by the police and the courts, who then deflect any responsibility for the consequences of that onto the women who are victimized.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        joey

        You’re the only male i have ever seen that has said “we live in a world where violence against women is accepted as normal, inevitable, etc by the police and the courts”.

        You’re not part of the problem, you are the problem Lucas.

        • Reply March 20, 2015

          gretel

          You seem upset Joey. Are your civil liberties at risk?

          • March 21, 2015

            Joey

            As a male, I now know that I should just be “as you were. Just carry on. This is not your problem.”

            Obviously your civil liberties are at risk Hansel, otherwise you would not risk sounding like Gretel.

        • Reply March 22, 2015

          Rob

          Yes, I am a prosecutor, and I care a lot about victims of violence, and I don’t accept it as the norm. Nor do I know anyone who works in the courts that does. The system needs constant refinement, sure, but there as some great people supporting victims of violence in the courts, particularly victims of domestic violence. Comments like Lucas’s are absurd.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Jenny D

    You missed a couple:

    Don’t go home with a man who offers you crash space, because if he kills you it’s your own fault for going home with him – what did you expect him to think?
    Why are you treating all men like potential rapists and murderers?

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Michael

    Gilmore is both right and wrong—and I say this without an ounce of glee or any intention to ‘restore a balance’ or whatever the men’s rights people go on about. But facts are facts: men are far, far more likely to assault and murder, yes, but they are also more than three times as likely to be the victims of homicide and nonsexual violent crime, so just saying ‘…men, as you were. Just carry on. This is not your problem’ is ridiculous. It adds nothing to an otherwise really powerful piece except vitriol. She presumes that most men don’t care and robs from the point which is that women aren’t safe from too many men. That *is* men’s problem. If she’s trying to be ironic she’s failed, utterly.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      It is fairly obvious that the final statement doesn’t imply men are never victims of violence, but rather that (just as the police have implied) male violence against women is not something that men should care about. It says ‘this is not your problem’ not ‘you have no problems of your own to worry about’. Y’all are choosing to misunderstand that part in order to discredit her obviously valid point.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Joey

        Just as the police have implied?!!!?!?!?!? Lucas, JOG ON.

        All I have gathered from your posts, is that faux-feminist outrage is alive and strong in this country, and it is hilarious.

        Men, apart from you Lucas (sorry, am I allowed to assume you are a man or do I call you an IT because I saw you on the internet and you could be a transexual or gender defiant?) do care about violence and condone it. FULLSTOP. Enough of this “violence against women, australia says no”. How about “violence, just NO”

        You are hijacking everything you are pretending to stand for. You are the one spitting vitriol and drawing conclusions that aren’t there: “(just as the police have implied) male violence against women is not something that men should care about”

        The police haven’t implied this, they are saying the exact same thing your wife would tell your kids (bit of a stretch for you innit). All you are doing is adding further flame to the gender war which has the exact opposite effect of what you’re aiming for.

        Grow up

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Fen

    “And men, as you were. Just carry on. This is not your problem”

    What a sexist remark. Its as if you don’t really believe in the things you lecture the rest of us about.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      you do realize she thinks men SHOULD care about male violence against women, right? And that she is adopting a sarcastic tone to make fun of the obvious silliness of the police comments. After all, if its our job to protect ourselves, then why pay the police? When they volunteer to resign and return their salaries due to their self-acknowlegded inability to do anything about violence against women, then their comments wont be so problematic. Until they do, this is the police saying ‘not our problem’

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Garfunkle

        You’re pissing me off. This is like the third or fourth comment you’ve made on this. You keep asserting police aren’t doing anything and ‘don’t care about violence against women.’

        To make this assinine assertion you would need to know at least 2 thing for certain:
        1 – you’d need to know the minds and hearts of every policeman. Seems like a generalisation to me and I thought generalisations are bad dude? Plus stupid, moronic statements aren’t helpful either.
        2 – you’d need to know that if every policeman quit tomorrow it would have no effect on male violence and sexual assault on women. Because you have asserted a few times that they so nothing to prevent these things. How could you pretend like you know either of those things? Dude you’re an idiot.

        • Reply March 23, 2015

          Megan

          The police here in the United States certainly didn’t care when my stalker tried to break into my house to rape and likely kill me. The only thing that stopped him was the two large dogs in the house. No, because I hid petrified in a closet for several hours before finally calling the cops, clearly I had simply had ‘an argument with’ my boyfriend and so they weren’t going to do anything, despite my stalker’s hand prints all over the back window that we pointed out.

          Here in the states, if you are raped, you get asked dismissing questions like “what were you wearing” and “were you drinking” and “are you sure you weren’t leading him on” and “so you’re certain you aren’t simply regretting sleeping with him”. Few reported rapes make it to trial, even fewer result in a conviction. People whine about the raped woman ‘ruining his reputation’. So no. NO, the cops do NOT care about violence against women.

          • March 24, 2015

            Jamie

            Also female in the US. Can confirm. My best friend’s boyfriend strangled her with her cell phone charger. She survived and he got a restraining order that he promptly broke by showing up at her house and leering into all the windows.

            She called the police to tell them he was breaking the order. By the time they got there, he was gone. Because they didn’t SEE him breaking the restraining order, they can’t do anything about it.

            Every day he would walk by her house and show up at her work in direct violation of the order. While still stalking her a year later, he got his girlfriend pregnant, and he pushed her down the stairs.

            Jail for 30 days. Out again.

            Yo Garfunkle, tell us again how the police (or rather, then entire criminal justice system) is TOTALLY looking for us.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Stephen Chavura

    What a silly response to a completely innocuous comment from a police officer.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Inora

      So a senior officer suggesting to half the population that they modify their day-to-day behaviour until his job is complete, is now an “innocuous comment”. What a silly response.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        joey

        Your mother would tell you the same thing after reading about the appalling murders of these two young woman.

        However, because a male policeman said what every mother has already told their children….

        QUICK, FOSTER OUTRAGE

        • Reply March 20, 2015

          gretel

          Exactly, but he’s not my mother, his job is to slam the criminal behaviour – not parrot what our mothers have told us since year dot. Instead, this sort of message is reinforcing the belief that women who don’t “protect” themselves are subject to blame if anything happens to them. Put and keep the focus where it belongs: the perpetrator, not what innocent citizens get up to. It’s a focus thing.

          • March 21, 2015

            Joey

            Warning: fatal self-inflicted wound.

            Gretel hears the police commissioner regurgitate the same line that “our mothers have told us since year dot.”

            Then says “Exactly, But he’s not my mother” .

            Note to future Police Commissioners. Next time a female is murdered and a Journalist asks a loaded & leading question like “What can females do be safe”…
            Answer with; “Just ask your mother”

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          gretel

          For the record – Joey you are not adding anything new, interesting, or relevant to the conversation. You’re heckling – and you’re very far from being a subject matter expert.

        • Reply March 23, 2015

          Megan

          Because that advice totally works all the time and no woman who has followed such advice has *ever* been raped, amirite?

          Would you like to know the ONLY thing that is a factor for being raped or killed? Being in proximity to a rapist or murderer who has decided they want to rape or kill you. And that is something that no amount of precaution can 100% protect you from. Instead, we limit our lives in ways that men don’t have to in the hopes of avoiding such a situation, which doesn’t always work, and then we get blamed if we decide to not live our lives in the constricted way considered proper for a woman.

          How about instead we teach boys and girls what ‘consent’ is, and why it is always required and why it should be explicit and when it cannot be given. But no, that makes men feel bad, as if they’re doing something wrong, so the onus is still on women.

          • March 24, 2015

            JANES

            In response to your comments further along Megan…
            There is an enormous problem with male violence across the board and everything needs to be done to reduce it.
            The article above however is an absurd and hysterical reaction to a misplaced and unfortunate comment and it’s brought out characters like yourself. I don’t know your personal experience but – believe it or not – starting a war of words is not the solution, alienating men from the discourse is not the solution, and declaring there is no solution is not the solution. It might make you feel better momentarily but it ain’t smart sister!

          • March 25, 2015

            Megan

            Then you clearly haven’t actually been reading what I’ve written. Try again.

            Solutions that I’ve proposed:

            Campaigns to teach men and boys that violence in response to becoming upset is NOT okay, instead of brushing it off as ‘boys will be boys’ or ‘what can you expect’. The supposedly ‘peace’ loving pope said that he’d punch someone in the nose if they insulted his mom. Most cultures expect male violence in retaliation to something males dislike. This needs to be challenged.

            Have men call out other men for inappropriate behaviours towards women, such as catcalling, expressing intent to get a woman drunk and have sex with (read: rape) her, demanding female attention in public spaces when the woman doesn’t want to engage, etc. You can also have men call out other men for inappropriate behaviours towards men. “You’re going to punch him? Really? What are you, 3?”

            But apparently that’s “no solution” to you. Which boggles the mind as these things would lower violence against men AND women, as I had also previously stated.

            There is nothing absurd or hysterical (Hyperbole my old friend… I’ve come to laud you once again…) about being pissed off in response to being told that women need to once again curtail some completely normal aspect of their lives, because that’s the magic answer to being in danger. We’re also pissed off because WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THIS FROM A YOUNG AGE. Honestly, I’ve said it multiple times that *I* began getting the “don’t walk alone”, “Don’t walk alone at night”, “Watch your drink”, “Go to the bathroom in a group”, from the time I was 9.

            So I’ve TOLD you my personal experiences; from the lectures, to my stalker who was ignored by the just-trying-to-be-helpful police. I could add more: the guy who followed me through downtown on my way back to campus at 1am, after I acted as bodyguard for a disabled female friend who was waiting for a bus, the classmate who also decided to become a stalker (yay 2 stalkers in a 2 year period!) and who nearly hit me because I dared to pay attention to another man and who attempted to sabotage my relationship with my then-fiance.

            I’ve been face to face with the potential for male violence again women, which this article is about SPECIFICALLY.

            Your whine about “but men are violent to other men” is pulling a “but whut about teh menz” card: women cannot talk about an issue faced by women without it being made all about those poor, poor men.

            I am no sister of yours, because I actually CARE.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Tor

    I would like very much to see more reporting on what we can do as a society or as individuals on how to curb the behaviour of the perpetrators. Victim blaming or changing the behaviour of the victims isn’t how our society should be reacting, living in fear isn’t how anyone wants to live.
    As a male, apart from leading by example for my children & peers, and calling out inappropriate behaviour when I see it, what else can I do? Let me know & I’ll do it.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      At least in the US, most men will admit that they would rape a women if you ask them in the right way. They wont come out and say ‘yes i would rape a woman’ but they will say they would get a woman drunk to have sex with her, or would consider having sex with a woman who was passed out, etc. So obviously many men don’t even know where sex ends and rape begins. Teaching men (especially young men and boys) about what is actually required for consent (a clear and sober yes) and why consent is so important.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Lucas Sherry

        and we can reduce violence against women by actually punishing perpetrators. It sets an example that such things are not normal, inevitable, etc but are in fact disgusting, repulsive, and places one outside the bounds of decent society. And even if it fails to do that at least the violent men will be in prison rather than out in society victimizing woman after woman after woman

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          Garfunkle

          Again with the baseless, idiotic claims that characterise the general tone of your comments all over this thread. “At least in the USA guys will admit theyd rape a woman if you ask them in the right way…”

          Really? Gonna back that incredibly ridiculous statement? Gonna back up any of the shit you say? You’re unbelievable. So self righteous and full of shit. The saddest thing is how many people seem to ‘like’ your comments as if you’re saying anything relevant, helpful, intelligent or honest.

          You say police don’t punish men who violently attack women? What do you mean by this? Do you mean police only care about violence when it’s against men? Are there no men incarcerated in Australia for violence against women? What about female police? Do they care?

          Have you ever seriously discussed your assinine, juvenile opinions with anyone that disagrees with you coz your arguments are ludicrous and irresponsible. You should be ashamed.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Rachael

    Is there a male commenter who hasn’t spectacularly missed the point? Or hasn’t sought to turn this issue around to be about men and their problems? I mean, God forbid a woman should talk about the fact that the responsibility for being safe is being put onto women and not the men who hurt them?

    And none of them see the irony.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Janes

      Victorian Homicide Squad Inspector, Mick Hughes spoke to Fairfax: “despite the risk of homicide, women should continue to walk alone in dark parks at night. If they do find themselves murdered they can rest assured it was not fair,” he said. His comments have been widely lauded for their progressive attitude to gender equality.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Rachael

        Are you under the impression Jane’s piece is a reaction to one comment by the Victoria Police? Think harder.

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          Misandrist

          A functioning brain located in the cranium would be required to think even the tiniest bit

        • Reply March 25, 2015

          JANES

          Yes, the piece is a reaction to that comment, in fact the whole article solely reports on those comments and that case. After that Jane makes her witty satirical list, suggesting that the Inspector’s offhand comments infer all her points, or at least that he tacitly supports the practice of victim blaming. She then cleverly finishes the piece with a little jab at the guys “And men, as you were. Just carry on. This is not your problem.” Brilliant haha, i loveher use of sarcasm

          Such a shame The Hoopla is closing down, people obviously couldn’t understand the finer nuances of the ‘articles’

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Liz

        Succinct and clever response Janes. D I Hughes was not “victim blaming”. He was offering basic sensible advice. In all of the vitriolic comments above about police, there is an obvious ignorance about the terrible and permanent effect that these horrendous crimes have on the police who deal with the victims, their families and loved ones. As with all first responders and emergency service personnel. Unfortunately Rachael and others who want to live as though this is an ideal world; where the things that we all “should” be able to do safely, actually exist, (they don’t) will disagree with you. We all, in order to protect ourselves and our children have to live accordingly. This is the real world, not the ideal we all long for. We do need to be responsible for ourselves and as much as possible take sensible precautions such as not walking alone at night – male or female – without relying on others to keep us safe and happy in every circumstance. It is simply not possible for police to protect every individual in every place at all times. Unfortunately there are instances when it’s necessary to walk alone after dark or even in daylight through a park where there might not be any other people at the time. Opportunistic perpetrators are going to be around anywhere, any time but particularly when and where they can take advantage of a person alone, where there are no witnesses. There are no easy answers. We, including the police, can all only do our best.
        The worst point about this case – as the point is with too many other cases, including child abuse and/or neglect and many more – is that this perpetrator should not have been free.
        The police do their bit by catching them, far too many judges and magistrates set them free. In some cases while announcing the sentence (or lack of) they express regret that they have felt constrained by existing law and against their better judgement have had to set them free.
        Our energy and efforts could best be spent on changing such laws – police are even more frustrated and angry at this outcome than is the general pubic because their knowledge of the situation is far greater than ours.
        I feel very sorry indeed for any victims of domestic violence who do not receive respectful, sympathetic, timely and practical assistance from police, the judiciary and anyone else. This is something that really should not happen, not just in an ideal world, but in the real world. Within every trade, profession and walk of life there are members who care deeply and who do everything possible – and then some. Unfortunately in this real world we live in there are others for whom it’s “too hard”, they can’t be bothered or they simply have no empathy. Many times there are far too few resources – human and otherwise.

        • Reply March 20, 2015

          Rachael

          Cool story Liz. You also don’t seem to understand Jane Tribune’s original point. Which has nothing to do with an ideal world. In fact we’re in an increasingly un-ideal world. No kidding! And instead of telling me what I think, you could always ask? But then you wouldn’t be able to denigrate me to make your long and unoriginal point, which has nothing to do with the original issue at hand.

          • March 23, 2015

            JANES

            Come on Rachael, Liz’s comments are incredibly sensitive and prescient. I’d actually agree that the Inspectors comment was not great, but isolated from its context (and I’ve watched the video) a lot more has been made of it than necessary. I’d promote self defence and a degree of caution over “don’t go to parks” but my point is – as Liz picked up – it is stupid and counter-productive, even dangerous to ignore real world common sense in favour of idealism, it is also lethal to alienate men from the discussion.

            I see you’ve also been to the Alanis Morissette School of Irony.

          • March 24, 2015

            Megan

            Janes, from the earliest ages most girls are taught these ‘real world common sense’ things that are supposed to somehow, magically stop us from getting killed or raped. They don’t always work. Instead, they make our lives more difficult, make it easier to blame us when something goes wrong (“Why did you walk there, don’t you know better?”), and make us fearful of men (who then get upset because we’re treating them all as potential rapists/murderers because we’ve been taught to AND because we’re not psychic).

            And since when should we focus on the behaviour of a woman who was walking, yes alone, IN A PARK in BROAD DAYLIGHT instead of worrying about a culture of male violence?

            We’re going to alienate men? ANYTHING we do to try to make our lives safer is going to alienate men. The uproar over the idea that yes, many women DO treat all men as potential rapists and murderers shows that. We’re effed no matter what. Don’t treat men like that, oh it’s your fault you were raped you should have been more cautious. Do treat men like that, “Why are you being so mean? MISANDRIST!”

            I also don’t want a male ‘ally’ who is more concerned about his feelings than my safety. That’s not an ally.

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Misandrist

      That would be because they are stupid

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Imogen

      http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/01/11/3610327/college-men-forcible-sex-study/

      There you go. A study. I’m going to back up his “incredibly ridiculous statement”. Is it so incredibly ridiculous to you now?

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Jay

    Disappointing article on an important issue. Insensitive and unnecessary. Hard hitting articles are welcome when they are well written but this one just makes everyone angry. Don’t use the death of a young girl to push whatever barrow it is that you feel you need to push. Like I said, insensitive and unnecessary.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Melissa

      The fact that this keeps happening is what makes me angry, Jay. The fact that as a woman I’m basically asking for whatever bad crap comes my way because of any number of contradictory reasons (as outlined in this article) makes me bloody furious.

      It’s not at all insensitive to suggest that girl had every right to be out for a walk in a park near her house in daylight.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Garfunkle

        Of course you have the right. Are you actually proposing anybody disagrees with that?

        Thing is, there are murderers. Do you dispute this fact?

        • Reply March 23, 2015

          Megan

          So, how exactly am I supposed to know who is, and isn’t a murderer and why should I as a *woman* curtail my life in obnoxious ways that would never be suggested to a man, despite the fact that men ALSO get murdered?

          How is anything other than being in the proximity of someone who chooses to murder me at all able to cause my murder?

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Vady

      The article didn’t make everyone angry, it only made people angry who feel defensive because they think it’s calling them out. Maybe it is, or I can see plenty for whom it isn’t, but they took it personally, anyway.

      The article displays a bit of the anger many of us feel, and displays to powerful effect a major part of the problem. I think it’s brilliant to show all the messages we get that we aren’t really supposed to live, and that we’re responsible for our own deaths/rapes/abuse. These are violent messages, and instead of seeing that, too many of you are defending them without listening to all the women pointing out that this is harming us. Killing us, even.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Travis

    The world is a sad state of affairs. Too often men attack or murder women. We are raised not to attack women, not to hit them, it’s the logical and sane thing to do. Unfortunately most of these people aren’t sane, (MOST, not all). Unless everybody is heavily medicated, it will unfortunately continue. We (for some stupid reason) came from an era where men had rights and women had nothing and this trend continues on in some men’s minds. There will always be attacks on women over men, physically they usually have less muscle due to scientific reasons (testosterone levels etc.) and because of this they will always be more likely to be the victims of these attacks. Women shouldn’t have to protect themselves against those men, but there needs to be a combination of doing so whilst educating men on equality of women’s rights as equals, as people. Hate, violence and oppression can be fought, but there will always be extreme outliers who don’t see it that way, and as the population increases, even if the ratio remains the same of these outliers, mathematically there will be more of them.
    I fully believe education in men is the best way to prevent these attacks, but some of these people of violence are savage animals. You can train a shark to swim peacefully with humans, but if it snaps and attacks, you can’t tell me that you wouldn’t feel safer being in a cage. Because that’s what this officer’s comment was meant to be like. Restrictive, confining, unfair, but designed to heighten your safety from frenzied attacks, not to oppress you.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      It is in the interest of women to keep themselves safe. But it is the DUTY of the police to make sure women (and everyone else) dont have to. Obviously the police can’t stop all crimes (no one actually thinks policing could ever be perfect), but these comments show that they don’t even see stopping these crimes as part of their job.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Garfunkle

        No. These comments don’t. It’s called ‘Responsibly warning the public’. In what way do police demonstrate that they don’t see protection as part of their job? Ironically it IS IN ORDER TO PROTECT SOCIETY THAT THE POLICEMAN MADE HIS COMMENTS. So stop pretending you know what the policemen think and feel. You look foolish and ignorant.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Joey

        You are the only one drawing that conclusion Lucas.

        I sincerely hope that you are blacklisted from all future emergency response, as you have just demeaned the entire (however imperfect) hard working police force of Victoria. “they don’t even see stopping these crimes as part of their job”

        And you’re basing this off one off-the-cuff remark that the Police commissioner made; which is EXACTLY the same message that EVERY SINGLE FEMALE has been told by their mother.

        You’re a bit of a numptie mate

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Misandrist

      You men should be speaking up rather than joining in when your in your beer swilling packs at the pub or steroid fuelled gym sessions or in any general conversations between men where you are all verbally reducing women to pieces of fodder in your ridiculous and pathetic attempts to display your dreamt superiority over one another, YOU, men are responsible for perpetuating this sickness of male mentality that women are somehow your property and require a males approval on some level in order to be of worth, THAT IS THE POINT of the article Einsteins!!!!!
      If you are not a misogynist and have female friends, a mother, wife, daughters, nieces, aunties etc etc whom you care for then stand up!! Show your male superiority by NOT being part of the tragic pack of losers talking about “the bird over there with the huge rack” or the “chick you banged on the weekend who was just begging for it”… I know you walk away from those conversations thinking the other guys are full of s*** anyway, be a real man and call your idiot friends out on it instead of leading them to believe that it is somehow acceptable to denigrate women like that!!
      Respect is earned, remember that!!

      • Reply March 23, 2015

        JANES

        If your moniker is ‘Misandrist’ you are openly advocating sexism and a gender bias; the opposite of equity, thus you are part of the problem. Can you understand this?

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Lizzy

    The point is when a man is killed we don’t hear police or commentators saying they shouldn’t go out on their own or should be aware of their surroundings etc. This is the double standard being addressed in this article. Whenever there is violence against women there is that subtle (or not so subtle) insinuation that they could have done something to prevent it.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      you can see the double standard with almost any minority group. A unarmed black man gets killed by the police? Maybe he shouldn’t have stolen a cigar, or talked back to the officer. An unarmed black child gets killed by the police? Maybe if that other black guy didn’t do something wrong all police wouldn’t have to view all black people (even children) as a threat to their lives. An unarmed black women is shot while trying to get assistance after a car accident? Oh thats easy. Dont get into a car accident and you’ll be safe. The majority will look for any way to blame the victim and exonerate the system, and, if they can’t find anything wrong with the victim, will simply settle for blaming the whole group for setting up the wrong kinds of expectations in the minds of the perpetrators. The people in power know that, if people aren’t blaming the victim, they will start blaming the system. As rulers of the system, they cant let that happen.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Annie

        Why do you call women a minority group?

        They’re not, that’s just your thinking and you are clearly wrong. In fact on last count they outnumbered men.

        • Reply March 20, 2015

          gretel

          “Marginalised” might have been a better term.

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Garfunkle

      Na the point is that a ‘trend’ is by definition a unique series of connected events. ‘Men attacking women’ is sadly a trend. I think instead of crying the ‘double standard’ nonsense you should be crying ‘Thank goodness the police are responsibly offering a unique response to a current trend’. What good is offering a generalised warning to a specific, trending threat?

      It’s like if the media said something vague like ‘stay healthy’ in the face of a measles epidemic. I think we’d all agree the most responsible and relevant journalism at such a time would be warnings about the dangers of measles in particular.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    NIK

    Its unfortunate but we don’t not yet live in a society where everyone can walk around safely… we may never get there, or it may take another 2,3,4 generations. The issue is so complex there is no easy fix. Some individuals will always gravitate to being predator, whether it being born that way, traumatic child hood, drugs ect. How do we solve that……its gonna take a long time.

    Whilst we collectively try to get there everyone needs to look out for danger, dont assume nothing will happen. These protocols whilst not ideal or fair are intended to keep everyone safe. I can tell you that as my daughter grows up I’ll need to teach her the hard truths and how to defend herself. This is life and life involves survival.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      “its gonna take a long time.” Especially if the police don’t think reducing violence against women is worth their time or effort.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Joey

        Especially now that you seem hell bent and intent on advertising to the Australian population that:

        “police don’t think reducing violence against women is worth their time or effort”

        To quote you; and only you.

        You’re just coming off as an insensitive asshole that has hijacked the tragic death of a young woman to suit their agenda.

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          miss poison oak of 1929

          Women being murdered is an agenda?????? You’ve just revealed yourself as an utter non-sensical douche. Please relieve my cranium and this forum of your juvenile ignorancy. And women, please cross the street when you see him.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Al

    i am offended but this article!! Simplistic, ignorant and insensitive. Also…..click bait.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Janes

    Not good form to vent thoughtlessly in public Jane. There are real people and real gravity to this event and you’ve blithely turned it into clickbait.
    Aside from the poor taste, the reasoning exhibited in this article is hotheaded and impractical and really counter-productive. I agree the police officer shouldn’t have said “women shouldn’t be alone in parks.” she might better have said, be cautious. be prepared but this is a preposterous reaction.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Daniel

      Spot on.

      I’m a male, and I still stay vigilant wherever I am, whatever I’m doing. I’d like to live in a world where this isn’t necessary, but unfortunately that’s just the way it is. To blame this situation on the Police for ‘not doing their job properly’ is just ridiculous, I’m sure they are trying their best to weed out as many of the grubs that perpetuate this sort of unexplainable violence as they can…. but they can’t be everywhere at once… and if we can’t pick out who is a grub from who is a good person when walking in the park, then how can they?

      The misconception in this article is that only women are copping the brunt of these cowardly acts and that the advice of ‘look out for yourself’ only applies to them. I’d be happy to hear the Police saying ‘Everyone, be careful, all the time… there are crazies everywhere that might try and harm or kill you’

      There’s no way you can stop these idiots from performing these terrible acts, but you can at least try and make it hard for them by being alert and following the advice they’ve given and maybe even learning some self defence. It’s your choice, but I chose to give myself a fighting chance by not putting myself in dangerous situations and staying vigilant, even when you are least likely to expect trouble.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Melissa

        How was she even putting herself in a dangerous situation?!

        If it was just before dinner and I said I was going for a run 500m from my house, and it was daylight, would you HONESTLY say that I shouldn’t because someone might kill me?

        Spending your life looking over your shoulder is awful and tiring. Women are taught to do it as a matter of course and it’s not right. We are not the problem here.

        It’s also nonsensical to suggest women not go to parks as though that will stop them being killed considering how often women are abused and killed in their own homes.

        The answer is that we’re not safe anywhere, and it’s entirely reasonable for us to say enough is enough.

        • Reply March 20, 2015

          Daniel

          Did you actually read my post Melissa? I’m saying that everyone should be vigilant, all the time. Female, male…it makes no difference. I ride a motorcycle and almost every time I take it out, someone cuts me off, changes lanes on me or just generally tries to kill me (not intentionally most of the time :P). I could jump up and down screaming that I shouldn’t have to look out for myself and everyone else should just obey the law, but I’d rather be vigilant and alive than complacent and dead. I’m not saying that it is the victims fault when someone attacks them, I’m just saying be aware of your surroundings, learn some self defence, don’t walk around with your face buried in your phone oblivious to everything and everyone around you. This applies to everyone, regardless of if you are a male or female.

          • March 20, 2015

            gretel

            You know Daniel, being vigilant all the time is a fallacy. We have degrees of vigilance, and there are some places where we need to feel secure and safe. We can’t always be in a hyper-alert state of fight or flight. I’m sure you have some places where you relax, put fear out of your head for a while, and suspend your vigilance, even just for a moment or two. Does this make you so wrong? How do you judge when and where you can relax? Clearly riding your motorbike is a risky exercise – you’ve felt that consistently. How would you feel about people at large telling you not to do it – that you’re asking for trouble – that there are recommendations from senior officials for you not to do it? Would you feel in any way outraged as if your liberties were being questioned or would you shrug your shoulders and do it anyway?

          • March 23, 2015

            Megan

            Yeah, but as you pointed out, those people aren’t actively out there trying to kill you.

            Rapists and murderers are people who consciously and actively CHOOSE to harm someone. The only common factor for getting murdered or raped is being in proximity to someone who had decided to murder or rape you. Even vigilant people get murdered or raped. The only way to avoid that is to find a deserted island that no other human being will ever get to. I mean, I got stalked by the guy who registered me to vote. I was 17. Tell me, what exactly did I do wrong, other than happen to have someone who was willing to be a rapist be the person behind the counter? How is that my fault at all?

            How about instead of making women be hyper vigilant, you counteract the stupid entitlement men feel to women’s attention that leads to actions like this?

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          Garfunkle

          “Women are taught to do it as a matter of course and it’s not right. We are not the problem here.”

          I don’t understand. So you think the police aren’t after these guys?? You think we men all blame the women and not the men? I don’t get it. By your logic we’d expect the women victims and not the male aggressors to be imprisoned. It’s just baffling to me what you want? You have articulated a positive, only a negative. What do you want that can be realistically achieved? No one is on the side of the murderers! So sick of this whining.

          • March 21, 2015

            gretel

            It’s a small but perfectly formed point, yet still it seems to elude you. Despite there being a criminal out there, the attention came back to the behaviour of women – and whether it was advisable / sensible / wise / ladylike / (insert word here) to carry out normal everyday independent behaviour, such as in this case, walking through a park to get from A to B. It pisses us off when we’re told not to do it. Because it sets the scene for us to be blamed for the perpetrator’s behaviour, if he attacks. This scenario has played out repeatedly throughout history and today, where attacked women are put under the microscope, about their completely normal, innocent, civilised behaviour. Logical thought process explained adequately now, or do you need more help?

        • Reply March 23, 2015

          JANES

          Great idea Melissa, you should say ‘Enough is Enough’ over and over again. That should stop them once and for all!
          It is very weird to see people are so alienated from reality they think it is meaningful to protest unanimously condemned acts such as murder.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        miss poison oak of 1929

        Right, but you don’t get told by male authority figures after coward punches to “stay out of the pubs, and don’t walk on the footpath, especially if you’re male. I’m afraid to say that this is reality for all men.” Nope. Didn’t think so either.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Sabri

    Let’s not forget that the vast majority of men who take part in these disgusting, despicable violent acts are mentally deranged. They are not your average run of the mill male. Many of them are psychopaths with troubled upbringings and are fundamentally broken individuals. It’s easier for women to take simple steps to minimize risk than to try and educate someone who is not mentally all there.

    The only way we can completely stop these offences is if we could identify the high risk individuals from an young age and put them away before they commit any violent acts. Let’s face it, that’s not going to happen.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      the vast majority of men who stab strangers to death in broad daylight are, like you suggest, likely to be mentally deranged. But most violence against women looks nothing like that. Most violence against women is perpetrated by the men who claim to love those women (fathers, boyfriends, husbands, brothers, etc) and it isn’t being stabbed to death in public in broad daylight. Its being harassed, stalked, beaten, raped, etc. Many men who have no problem interacting with society under most circumstances end up victimizing women because 1. womens lives and bodies are devalued in nearly all cultures and 2. police and courts dont prosecute these crimes fully. Most violence against women is a crime of opportunity (which is a social illness), not a crime of mental illness on the part of the perpetrator.

      • Reply March 21, 2015

        Vady

        Loving your astute comments, Lucas, but I have to point out that “nearly all cultures” is incorrect. By population, yes, but there are many cultures that don’t devalue women’s lives and bodies like ours does. When patriarchal religions dominated cultures that had been more egalitarian, they also universalized their beliefs and went a-colonizing and converting, and have become widespread and claim most of the world’s population, now.

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Misandrist

      The problem is far greater than psychopaths in our communities, it’s men’s pack mentalities, not thinking and acting on what you instinctively know to be wrong or immoral in favour of being lead around by the nose like animals by your inflated egos, at a woman’s expense!!

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Stark

    You forgot to include,
    “Don’t be a man”.
    On your list.

    Men are murdered at much greater rates than women according to ABS figures.
    Sorry if that ruins the ‘poor me’ tone of the piece.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Suzanne

      And who are men mostly murdered by?

      That’s right, other men. But we don’t have police commissioners making statements saying men shouldn’t go out alone or at night whenever a man is murdered.
      No one would ever ask what a man was doing walking in a park by himself or what he thought would happen by going out alone at night.

      • Reply March 20, 2015

        Thomas

        Suzanne, I pretty much have zero inclination what your point is with your throwaway line: “And who are men mostly murdered by? That’s right, other men”

        This isn’t the zinger you think it is. If a male suffers violence at the hands of another male, that doesn’t make it insignificant. What you’re doing is turning this into a gender war.

        If I am acted upon violently, is it only important to you if it is done by a member of the opposite sex? Do you realise how ridiculous this sounds?

        At the end of the day, as a male, I am way more likely to be acted upon violently. End of.

        • Reply March 20, 2015

          Rachael

          End of? So because men are violent towards men, you don’t think it’s important that we do something about violence against women? Or even talk about it? Cos it kinda feels like you’re trying to shut down a woman from saying that she’d like men to stop being violent towards women. Do you think it logically follows that she doesn’t care about violence towards men? Because I don’t think it does.

          The ‘poor me’ tone is coming from the male commenters who can’t bear to be the centre of attention on one, specific subject. Not everything is about you.

          • March 20, 2015

            Rachael

            I’m sorry…’not to be the centre of attention’.

            The ‘not all men’ gag is getting really tiring lads. Give it a rest.

          • March 20, 2015

            Lucas Sherry

            not all men are posting such ignorant comments lol

          • March 21, 2015

            Joey

            No Rachel, he was trying to make a point that this isn’t a “violence against women” problem.

            This is a society wide problem with violence.

            RACHEL:
            the problem with “‘poor me’ tone is coming from the male commenters who can’t bear to be the centre of attention on one specific subject” is exactly that.
            YOU HAVE JUST PIGEONHOLED EVERY SINGLE MALE AS A MURDEROUS RAPIST DON’T YOU SEE.

            But hey, you’ve totally covered yourself for making sexist generalizations (yeah, look up the definition for both) “The ‘not all men’ gag is getting really tiring lads, give it a rest.”

            You sound exactly like that racist guy who begins every sentence with “I’m not racist but….”

          • March 24, 2015

            Megan

            Joey: “YOU HAVE JUST PIGEONHOLED EVERY SINGLE MALE AS A MURDEROUS RAPIST DON’T YOU SEE. ”

            ~~~~~~~

            Please, oh wise and powerful man, tell me how, exactly, I as a woman, am to know which man is a murderer or rapist, and which isn’t, so that I won’t treat all male strangers with the same degree of caution and fear, because apparently that hurts your poor man feefees that women can’t psychically know that you’re not going to hurt them.

            Of course, your frantic dismissal of the reality that women are most likely to face violence from men, makes you seem like you’re probably NOT one of the safe ones. Sorry if that hurts, but if you’re dismissive of harm, well…

            You said that society has a problem with violence… done by men… but that we shouldn’t focus on reducing male violence. Do you not see how bloody stupid that is? That campaigns to teach boys to be less violent in their responses, that having society no longer accept that it’s ‘okay’ or ‘expected’ for a guy to react physically when he is upset, will help both women AND men? But no, you’ve got your own feefees hurt because some women are discussing male violence and HOW DARE WE.

        • Reply March 21, 2015

          Misandrist

          Thomas, you typically, completely missed Suzanne’s point, violence stems from men, against both women AND men, as you are, I’m assuming a man, do something about it!!!! Don’t sit there on your high horse assuming everything is about you, typically a man!!

          • March 23, 2015

            JANES

            Do the transgender community have to do something about it too – half the amount perhaps? or are they exempt by being feminine?

          • March 24, 2015

            Megan

            Janes, are you really so transphobic that you have no idea the amount of violence that trans women and men face in their lives? You are beyond ignorant if you think they aren’t aware of issues with violence, *especially* trans women.

          • March 28, 2015

            JANES

            The exact opposite Megan, I’m making fun of Misandrist’s silly comments, also making a point about how foolish it is to divide genders responsibility on common problems.
            There are two types of people in this world Megan, and they’re not defined by gender, they are those who can follow a thread and those who can’t. Yourself and misandrist fall into the latter camp and thus are irrelevant to a conversation on any subject. Try Youtube

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Nat

    One day, Golda Meir (PM of Israel 1969-76) was asked to put a curfew on women to curb a series of rapes. Her response: “It is the men who are attacking the women – if there is a curfew, let the men stay at home.”

    I believe the point is, lets not ask potential victims to change their behaviour – lets do something to change the behaviour of the perpetrators. Because, to be honest, our approach of attempting to change the potential victims behaviour is not working. This year 2 women per week are being killed. 2 per week. Let’s not turn this around, and make this a gender war – men have issues as well, one does not rule out the other. We are all important and equal. The problem is that some of us do not think others are.

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Vady

      Gender war isn’t the point. Feminism fights patriarchal social systems, not men, themselves or as a gender.

      The point is women are being hurt by the social system, not necessarily by men, though men do get away with it more, when the system sees women as owned by their partners, fathers, or society, still. From our mothers to the police, we get the message that we’re to blame for the harm we come to, while men don’t get the same message at all. There is cultural and institutional oppression going on, still, and we all have work to do, because it doesn’t have to be this way. So lets’ work together.

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Misandrist

      And once again Nat, that would be men!!
      You know, the cause of all the wars, males!!
      The people I respect the most in this world happen to be men, these men I respect greatly, would not have to negatively comment on a blog like this because they aren’t ignorant to the facts and are fully aware that this is not about gender, it is about violence…. The reason all of this appears to be pivotal around the plights of women victims is simply because women are generally the softer targets and the recent attacks which have been publicised have been against women!!
      Of course an intelligent man realises this.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Ella

    Jane , what a depressing state of affairs !

    You could have included ;

    as mothers what can we do so that SOME of our young men have enough respect for themselves so that they don’t;

    use force on each other,
    use force on women,
    treat people with respect…including their mothers.

    Sadly we women, mother these young men who become monsters.

    Why do they, how do they become as they are ?

    What can we do as a society to put and end to this?

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Vady

      It’s culture. The enculturation doesn’t come entirely from mothers, and it can be quite the struggle to counter the cultural messages your children get from peers, teachers, television, movies, games, church, history, etc.

      What we can do is start with ourselves, our families, but also branch out from there and work together with community to change the culture and fix problems like poverty that make desperate parents and broken people that continue the cycles of violence and don’t care about community because community obviously doesn’t care about them.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Dave

    I don’t disagree with the idea behind this article but seriously stop slamming “Men” – you’re all as bad as what you’re claiming is the issue in the first place.

    Women rape. Women murder. Women commit heinous crimes.

    There shouldn’t be a “tell men not to rape” approach it should be a “tell everyone not to rape” approach.

    This is disgusting.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Melissa

      If drink drivers were responsible for 95% of road deaths and speeding was responsible for the other 5%, would it be reasonable to expect that there would be a massive anti-drink-driving campaign and operation? If there were, would it negate the deaths caused by speeding?

      Think about what you’re saying, because it’s nonsense.

      No one is saying women don’t commit violence. There is an overwhelming problem of men committing violence and it NEEDS to be addressed.

    • Reply March 20, 2015

      Lucas Sherry

      how about when the rates for any of those things (rape, murder, heinous crimes) by men reaches the level perpetrated by women, then we focus on ‘telling everyone.’

      If one person is bleeding from a knife wound, and another person has a paper cut, would you conclude we need to focus on both equally lest we be unfair? They are both bleeding, after all?

      Clearly scale matters here. And anyway, no one is telling men not to do this or that because they might be victimized. So your equivalence is false for at least two reasons.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Siobhan

    I watched Inspector Hughes make his comments the other day. It was not his only solution that women not go out alone. He was a very emotional and distraught Man who was despairing about this crime. He was stating that unfortunately everyone has to be cautious when out alone, however women more so. I absolutely agree that we need to keep focussing on changing the behaviour of the perpetrators, most often men, but from the beginning of time when people live in large groups you should always be careful about putting yourself in a position of vulnerability. The other night here where I live a good friends boy, who is in his early 20s was walking home and was attacked by a group including 2 boys and 2 girls. He shouldn’t have been walking alone. Sad but true. It is a message I will be giving my boys in the strongest way.
    Inspector Hughes’s strongest message during that police conference was that everyone as a community needs to look after each other. Men and women.
    Jane Gilmore has some very good points but I always feel the delivery of those points is SO important. Never to isolate a group but to encourage them to talk, act and to encourage change. Her points may be meant to be slightly humorous at times but her last line in my opinion just shuts the conversation down. The conversation that she is trying to start. With a line like that good men stop listening.
    Most men are wonderful human beings (I am the mother of 3 of them) and I strongly believe that if we stop talking like it is “us and them” and talk more like we are a team that together can create solutions to prevent all violence in our society we will get there faster. Together against violence.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Sparkle

    As an activist in the anti-violence against women and children movement, I am 100% against blaming the victim. In any way, shape, or form.
    I find the news report interesting, as it is often the perception of things that matter, and that contributes most heavily to how people feeling, rather than just the words or event itself.
    For example, if I collected hundreds of bottles over six month (in spurts of thirty at a time) from my neighbourhood to raise money for an orphanage in Vanuatu, and left my garage door always open, perhaps passers by will conclude over time that I am likely an alcoholic (which would be untrue).
    Homicide squad inspector Mick Hughes stated he was encouraging all people to walk together (as there is some safety in numbers) and acknowledged that this is a sad enrichment on society.
    As a feminist, I agree with both this recommendation (especially because whist we can engage in prevention of male violence programs and this is important, I suggest regrettably most of the effects will only be seen at best in the long term), the *immediate* concern for every person, and especially women (because they are, statistically, at much more risk) is *their safety*. Mr Hughes has a responsibility to make recommendations to the public concerning their environment and their safety, just like police recommend that you keep bushes in front of your house cut down, so that someone can’t hide from your view as you exit your house.
    We know that we cannot control what other people do, that there is risk involved (especially for females) in walking in any place where you isolated, and where if you scream, you can’t be heard, and that we must be vigilant. This is reality. Very. Very. Sad. *But true*.
    Whilst I often hop on board to support discussions where a public speaker, or perpetrators, or men or woman are victim blaming, and am passionate about prevention, I perceive the comments to Mr. Hughes as a little harsh, as he *was not* saying suggesting that women should change anything about them eg their dress, their alcohol intake, their speech, nor was he suggesting that women are the cause of male violence eg she provoked it, nor did he buy into the tactics that abusive men use eg minimising, presenting the relationship as mutually destructive, denial, nor saying that family violence is not the huge silent massive hidden pandemic that it is. Or that women don’t have the equal right to access any environment.
    It is a big topic, and perhaps he would have been well served to acknowledge that this is yet another incident of male violence that we urgently need to continue to address, *and* given that this is that current reality, in order to protect oneself from such unpredictable violent crime, it would be vigilant for a female to ……… Other measures might include carrying a personal alarm.
    Is this not common sense? We cannot ignore personal safety and recommendations for vigilance in this day and age because we uphold the view that females are 100% innocent. Are we ie females, the police, not all on the same page in that we are 100% against all forms of violence, consider this absolutely unacceptable, and would do anything at all to prevent this from happening to someone else? Surely the antidote has to be multifaceted and any one approach can’t ignore other angles of the same coin?
    I acknowledge that because victims are so often blamed, subtly, or overtly (by the perpetrator), that when a comment is made about *anything* to do with the victim it looks like victim blaming.
    All coal is black, but not everything black is coal.
    My heart felt and deepest sympathies to the family and friends of this dear young woman, and anyone who has suffered violent crime.
    Thoughts? Comments?

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Joey

      My thoughts are that you have summed it all up perfectly.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Suzanne Ingleton

    Elizabeth Cady Stanton 1881 said:
    “Though woman needs the protection of one man against his whole sex, in pioneer life, in threading her way through a lonely forest, on the highway or in the streets of the metropolis on a dark night, she sometimes needs too, the protection of all men against this one.”

    “Women’s degradation is in man’s idea of his sexual rights.”

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Ella

    Dave, your anger is frightening !

    Why so angry? If the shoe doesn’t fit don’t wear it.

    Any person who can think will acknowledge that women in fact any of us are capable of bad things given the right circumstances.

    Sadly statistically men are responsible for most of the violence.

    It has been so since the beginning of time.
    The fact some women are becoming as bad as some men is no reason to rage..against women.

    Trying to understand , educating is the answer NOT rage !

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Misandrist

      Thanks Ella, it’s men who stripped my trust and respect for men in general, that’s not to say I distrust all men, for example men who have already earned and maintained my trust in those individuals.
      I may come across as overtly feminist but that’s simply because I don’t know who might spike my drink in the future or how many of their friends they will invite to rape me… Perhaps the men commenting will excuse my intolerance for them not that I can bring myself to care too much for your feelings on any matters anyway!

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    deb

    Since trans”women” are Males, not Female, that point doesn’t belong in a list of things Females shouldn’t do.

    And since several children and women have actually been killed by trans”women” = biological Males, that point in this list is callous.

    • Reply March 23, 2015

      Megan

      Trans women are women. They face the same sorts of prejudices when they choose to live as who they are, and face myriad others that cis women will never have to.They also have incredibly high murder rates. By your reasoning, the fact that women sometimes kill men makes the *entire* list callous, because omg women can be dangerous!

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Enza Marino

    How about keeping these scumbags behind bars where they belong, instead of roaming the streets to offend and kill again.. That’s where the problem is… Women should feel safe not scared to live their lives.. What century are we living in?? …

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Sandra

    I think the portrayal by media and police with regard to senseless acts of violence towards women and men is different. Take the ‘one punch’ crimes where men are killed by random violent other men – as happened in Kings Cross and Bondi. Police or media never suggested the victims had anything to do with their own attacks or could have prevented them. Also, there were no statements from the police that I am aware of warning men to avoid Bondi, drinking, Kings Cross etc. There were instant and urgent pushes to change laws regarding alcohol service and bar opening times however. This is the kind of response and action sorely missing from random acts of violence on women in public. Making public places safer would be useful and welcome.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Ernst

    If you want to ‘be’ safe, nothing like conceal carry to see off every single creep you come across. Pity that saving your own life is a high crime in Australia.

    • Reply March 23, 2015

      Megan

      It’s very easy for a weapon to be turned against you, and having a gun won’t save you from someone knifing you in the back.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Jason

    A ridiculous and totally over the top reaction to a police warning MADE WHILE THE PERPETRATOR WAS STILL ON THE LOOSE! But let’s not let the facts get in the way of your agenda or a good click bait headline . You’re not helping your cause in the slightest. Good work from the “all men are bastards” brigade.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Mary Kate

    Whilst I agree with some of the main sentiment expressed in the article, that opening paragraph repels me. No, I am not like Masa. She was a young girl who existed and now does not. Not just a character from the news or a point prover.
    I think there should be a line drawn between speaking up about attitudes that perpetuate violence against women, and, bringing up societal pressures on how one should look etc. That is not a men versus women thing and isn’t really relevant.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Stark

    The poor old, caring copper said “I suggest people, particularly females” for the simple reason that their hasn’t as yet been a female world heavy champion of the world. ie as much as a bunch on this thread seem to want to ignore it, girls and boys are different and girls tend to be on average, not as strong as boys. So the poor ole copper was just showing genuine concern.

    But ladies, go ahead, slap him down, turn every sideways glance into agravated sexual violence and every act of genuine concern into chauvinistic vitriol.

    Maybe what he should have said was “people shouldn’t be in parks after dark, except for those hoopla women, who of course can go and please em selves”

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Thomas

    Everyone seems to be for educating men to not bash, rape or murder women. The problem is no sane person commits such heinous crimes, they are not going to suddenly think ‘Maybe I shouldn’t stab a woman in a park’.
    It’s a sad fact but there are always going to be sick humans on this planet and no amount of education is going to stop deranged monsters.

    • Reply March 23, 2015

      Megan

      There are plenty of men who don’t properly understand the idea of consent. They think that having sex with someone blackout drunk is okay, when it’s actually rape. They also think they are entitled to a woman’s attention. I’ve been on a bus, reading, and have had many guys get angry when I won’t hold a conversation with them. Guys who think I should talk to them, or catcall strangers, or sleep with drunk women are not insane. They’re normal, everyday guys who don’t think for a second about their attitudes and actions and they help enable the sort of attitudes that go to the extreme and result in rape and murder.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Andrew

    Any kind of violence against either gender should not be tolerated and we need to do something to make that a part of our cultural DNA.

    Also, just for a frame of reference, the number of homicides per year in Australia is roughly 1 per 100,000 people. The number of vehicle related fatalities is 5.6 per 100,000. Therefore, if we shouldn’t go into parks or be alone because we might get stabbed, we should most definitely not step into a car.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    ceegee3040

    Well, I didn’t take this article the way some have.

    I get what the policeman meant – I know it was a warning that danger was still lurking out there.

    I think this article is a sign of frustration on the writer’s part (I get it). She is simply listing the messages we have been receiving the last couple of years. I don’t need to list all the crimes committed in the name of women in recent history – anyway it is just debilitating to think about them.

    Fear is exhausting.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Speakstrange

    I would consider myself a feminist but this article is completly ridiculous. This police officer was making these comments as he believes it will help save lives. At the end of the day if that’s what it takes to save a life let’s be a little more vigilant stick together when walking and tackle the bigger issues of WHY these people are still in our community at the same time. Unfortantly I believe this is what we have to do until our laws are resolved.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Lysa

    Except Morgan Huxley, though, right?

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Steve

    Okay here are some facts. In the year between 2004 and 2005, around 5,000 women were hospitalised due to assault, around 3,000 of which occurred in the home (around 2,000 were victims of parter assault).

    In the same year over 15,000 men were hospitalised due to assault, around 1,000 of which occurred in the home.

    In public spaces at least, and generally all round, it helps to be a woman in preventing been killed

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Robyn

    I agree with the sentiment of the article but hate this title as it is doing the very thing the article sets out not to do – victim blaming, and it was my first reaction and then I read the article. Please if you are going to challenge the idea, which you have successfully, don’t use it as your title – challenge it every time and do not allow any women in any circumstance be blamed for mens violence.

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    Lucas Mc

    Who is victim blaming in this article? That is not what that policeman was saying. If people want to draw that bow from his comments to suit their own agenda or to sensationalize what he has said, then fine, but I disagree. I understand that people are looking for someone to blame or to be angry at after tragedies like this, but the police who are out there doing their best to prevent these kinds of tragedies or take perpetrators off the street are not the ones to blame. Are you seriously comfortable accusing this police officer of victim blaming for what he said. Do you not think that he may be devastated, frustrated and feeling helpless at the situation?

    How is it helpful to distract police with these kinds of accusations? This kind of bullshit article would’ve taken up most of that officer’s day rather than spending it protecting people ( women included). This headline is the equivalent of a ‘wolf whistle’ comment by a politician about ‘illegal immigrants’ that is designed to appeal to closet xenophobes

  • Reply March 20, 2015

    ro.watson

    And gerls be prepared for trouble if you have self-defence training. When I was younger and fitter than I am today, but over 50, I got grabbed from behind by a male bouncer as I was attempting to sober up with an order for water and a cigarette in my hand at an outside bar at Rottnest Island Hotel(where I was staying).
    Magnificent deflection of grab~ even if I do say so myself. At the time I did not realize the problem with my approach to the outside bar was a cigarette.
    Next thing was a bigger grab from several men~ which I did not fight except to say lock me up, lock me up as~ guessed police~ they carried me to my hotel room(as there were children in the area)~ a family hotel, and my resistant behaviour was not a good example, even though the only people drinking outside were men..
    That night I was raped in that hotel room.
    The next morning I was issued with a summons for drunk and disorderly at the Rottnest jetty. Sort of surreal, as still in shock, I am saying I was raped, which I was.

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    man

    “And men, as you were. Just carry on. This is not your problem.”
    maybe you should front up in person and tell that to her father or brothers and male friends weeping for her.
    Fuck you, you’ve used the murder of a young woman to get a bit of attention for yourself…classy…maybe you can get a spot being the edgy one on a tele show.

    • Reply March 23, 2015

      Megan

      Ah, so the concern is for the male relatives to whom she belonged, but not that this is a symptom of a larger cultural issue and thus instead of noting that you take the time to denigrate a woman. Classy.

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    Raina babos

    my only comment is for everyone, male and female, young and old, to be aware of your surroundings! I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s in inner city Melbourne and even then there were no go zones and parks were one of them esp on a weekday when not many people were around. There is safety in numbers but not always as my sister and friend were attacked by a man in the Botanical Gardens while walking home from work but luckily someone intervened. There have and always will be opportunists who will try to take advantage of a lone person. Vigilance can help.

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    Grant

    Rehabilitate a sadistic murderer? This is most uneducated article I have read in a long time. Leave the safety precautions to police!
    There are father’s and brother’s and husband’s out there that are affected by tragic crimes like this and you somehow take advantage of this event to push your ‘women with hairy armpits’ campaign.

    • Reply March 23, 2015

      Megan

      Nice erasure of women in that reply there. Are mothers, sisters and wives unaffected by tragic crimes like this? Do you think they never run down the litany of “if only I had” that women are taught from a young age to do?

      Also, congrats on your broad splash of sexism there! Did it feel good? Are you proud of yourself? Do you feel all *manly* because you told a woman what her proper place and her proper reaction is?

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    dana

    I don’t have anyone to accompany me walking to work and back, or into town, or on a nice forest/riverside stroll which is good for my health and well-being. this does not bother me as I quite like the peace and solitude of my own company. What advice should I take? Should I never leave the house unaccompanied? I constantly have people telling me I am really stupid/insane/crazy for walking town and country alone-because I am female.

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    Rae Hewitt

    How ridiculous Jane. You REALLY think this is what the police are telling you? You REALLY think that the men and women of the homicide squad, who’s job it was to attend this horrendous scene, inform that poor girls parents and then spend thousands of hours trying to bring the scum who did this to justice, intended their message to be derogatory to women??? Truly ridiculous! The simple truth is this is sadly the world we live in and these investigators have a front row seat to this! Before you SO disrespectfully dirty the unbelievable work they do have a think about where your anger should truly be directed. Have a think about how this person can be allowed to walk the streets and how many times the police have probably tried to stop him from doing so. Stop burning your bra and send the message to the judicial system not the police who work tirelessly to try to protect YOU from it!!!!!!

    • Reply March 23, 2015

      Megan

      Yes, actually.

      For example, here in the United States, if a woman is raped and decides to report it, she’ll get to face such questions from the police as “What were you wearing”, “What were you doing there”, “Were you drinking”, “Did you lead him on in any way”, “Are you sure you don’t just regret sleeping with him”. I was stalked at 17 and the guy tried to break in but was deterred by my two large dogs. I hid in a closet for 3 hours, petrified, before I got the courage to get to a phone and call the cops. Their response, when they arrived hours later, was to say that because I took so long to call how were they to know I didn’t simply have an argument with my boyfriend? We showed them the guy’s hand prints on the sliding glass door to the backyard, but they didn’t dust.

      So… yeah. They pretty much probably ARE saying that, because we women get told that ALL THE TIME.

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    Michelle

    I don’t like this at all and you can hate on me all you like, it doesn’t bother me one bit. What bothers me is using Masa’s murder and Mick Hughes statement and this memo that’s been flooding the Internet everywhere, to satisfy your sexist opinion. You’re also basically saying ‘all’ men are rapists, murderers, abusers, when you post this. I find the last bit of the memo, “Men, just carry on as you were, this is not your problem.”, so damn offensive and sexist, and I’m a female. Tell that last bit of the memo to her Dad or brother’s face, or her Uncles and her male friends…. and see how far that would get you. Not far in my opinion, that would be the biggest insult to them. Typical media crap from feminists that blame ‘all’ men for everything in their life. Just think, without these ‘men’, be it their Dad, sperm donor etc, these feminists wouldn’t be here to voice their sexist opinions onto the world! So maybe they should be thanking some of the men in this world, not all of them are scumbags. I’m here supporting all the REAL men, who don’t commit crimes on women. I’m just sick of good men copping flack for being a man. Maybe you should be angry at our judicial system and judges (and yes, female judges too!) as they’re the ones who are letting these animals walk our streets!

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Gretel

      But that is what the cop said… Men, carry on as you were. He was just a bit more implicit about it… and it seems you don’t like it spelled out here. He was telling WOMEN to change their behaviour. Remember?

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    Michael

    You absolute disgraceful human beings, writing an article like this mere days after such a tragedy.

    I’d love to get you on a show like Q and A with logical, academic people and watch you stumble and fall over your words.

    RIP to the poor girl who lost her life and well done to the Police to the excellent work they do.

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    maria

    If this is the sort of trash you report then i think your magazine should be burnt with the trash. I doubt you have given a thought about the family of this young lady seeing it and reading dont get your self killed. I am sure she didnt mean to get herself killed. Sounds like a man hater magazine to me.

    • Reply March 23, 2015

      Megan

      You do realise that the title of the article refers to what people tell women to do, right? We get told “don’t do this”, “don’t go there”, “don’t be alone”, “don’t get drunk”, Don’t, Don’t, Don’t…. because we could get killed.

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    June Miller

    Oh, for God’s sake! He’s trying to make people, especially women, be aware and take sensible precautions. Of course society shouldn’t be like this, BUT IT IS! He is not denigrating all men. and he is not being sexist, because the fact of the matter is that it IS more dangerous for a woman to walk alone, especially at night than for a man. And he says “I suggest to PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY FEMALES, they shouldn’t be alone in parks,” & “I’m sorry to say that is the case.” He doesn’t say ‘never leave the house’; he is just trying to make people think about their surroundings, and be careful. If you don’t get that, and if you insist on turning that into a sexist, human rights issue, then maybe you need to examine your view of the world, life and reality.

    • Reply March 23, 2015

      Megan

      What, you think we AREN’T aware of these ‘sensible precautions’ (that men don’t have to take, and that if they do indeed fail to take them don’t get told that ‘if only you’d’) and that we haven’t been taught them since we were children? I got that lecture when I was ***9***.

  • Reply March 21, 2015

    Bev Green

    How is this statement any different to warning parents to walk with their children if a person is in the area trying to grab kids..male or female I might add as woman are also perpetrators of crimes..the uproar if they were NOT informed would be huge. Give this man a break..he has to see the results of murders..male and female victims..and has an obligation to warn the citizens that are being targeted that they need to be careful.This kind of attitude really does nothing but cause more problems..

    • Reply March 21, 2015

      Gretel

      He could say, women! claim the streets and parks, they are yours! We are vigilant and looking out for public safety night and day, so do not let the bastards get you down. Don’t let the fear get to you!
      Instead he officially endorses a fearful attitude that women must adopt or they are at risk of being blamed if they become victims of crime.
      Put the focus where it belongs, and do not allow or endorse innocent people to modify their everyday behaviour. That is a sign of defeat and weakness and letting the crims call the shots.

  • Reply March 22, 2015

    robbie

    he has since retracted that comment, move on, dumb article.

  • Reply March 22, 2015

    robbie

    and also, the cops have no control over who is on the streets, offenders get arrested, and get shit sentences and let out, i know where he is coming from, so frustrating, damned either way

  • Reply March 22, 2015

    Georgia

    Rip Masa Vukotic. I’m sorry all this aggressive smut has taken away from the true sadness of your death. I find it incredibly sad that one simple comment from the police commissioner has brought on this brutal and aggressive behaviour from our society. He chose to make a comment which was meant for our welfare and got slandered for it, if he didn’t make a comment, I’m sure he would’ve been slandered for that too. What’s happened to civility? I’m really quite upset that people feel the need to twist and warp innocently meant words into something so vile and for others to allow themselves to be drawn into this provocative crap. A girl has died. Someone’s daughter. I would feel ashamed if her family happened upon this article only to be subjected to pages upon pages of this angry, pointless and disappointing rubbish. Koudos to the few who were able to remain amicable and who were able to contribute a civil and sensible opinion. To the rest of you, I’m truly sorry you have so much anger in your hearts and seem to forget we’re talking about a poor innocent dead girl here. Shame on you for making this your own verbal punching bag of personal agendas.

  • Reply March 22, 2015

    Alice

    Clickbait/sharebait garbage.

  • Reply March 22, 2015

    Ummsnum

    Sorry, but Jane’s list just reinforces women’s fears and guilt associated with assault. I dont find it ironic or sarcastic or clever. Its backwards and unhelpful.

  • Reply March 23, 2015

    Elaine McKenna

    As long as the demographics on Q & A remain so misrepresentative – there is a problem.
    Kind regards to all non violent women and men, girls and boys. And more support to the alienated.

  • Reply March 24, 2015

    Trina

    Why are the male comments full of so much hate. Women cant even voice their opinions to the article without being ridiculed by men for it. I have met one man in my entire life who acknowledge the role they play in woman’s oppression. They are far and few between. Most male comments here just reinforce the fact they refuse to accept they could be part of the solution. Almost all male comments here say the same thing. “Its not the coppers fault its your ridiculous feminist impression of his comments that are stupid so shut up” Thanks guys for all your feminist bashing its sad this is the only way you can interpret the article.

  • Reply March 25, 2015

    Kari

    Lots of sensitive feminists.
    If you are strong enough, just stay alone.That is not a consideration about sex.
    However,in biostructure,men differs women.
    The cop only gives a GENERAL reminder and because the killed in this tragedy are women.In fact,for same incident, men may escape easier,I repeat,in General.
    I am not talking the women will be weaker in fight,but in fact,statistically and biologically it is,for untrained ones.
    Just a warm reminder can be over eleborated by imagination,poor cops.
    Therefore,I suggest girls here to be strong and tough,even tougher than men, to change the social perception and inborn difference,then “Particular Female” will not appear again.Not just neglecting the facts and blame the cop. It is not about behavior changing but just telling us all ‘Be Careful’ to suspicious ,not matter the attacker is a male,female or just an accident.

  • Reply March 26, 2015

    Rachel Martin

    Who is “Particular Girl?”

  • Reply May 3, 2015

    kittie

    OK – Ihave read the article and found it sadly amusing. I have read all the comments too.

    I was attacked walking at night, down a well lit street, with a girlfriend; sober, wearing jeans and a baggy jumper. A friend of mine was attacked, walking alone at night, down a well lit street, on his own.
    We were both hurt and, although I hate the word, traumatised, by our seperate experiences.

    I do not hate men as a result of my experience, to do so would be, in my humble opinion, ludicrous.

    People, all people, from all walks of life should be taught to respect people, all people, from all walks of life. As long as any sector of the human population believe they are in any way superior, this issue will never end. It is not an issue of gender, it is an issue of species.
    We may have thumbs and we may not live in trees but that does not necessarily mean we are evolved.

Leave a Reply