THE DATING PROJECT #8. A SHOCK!
The Dating Project follows the adventures of three women Lou Lou (30s), Astrid (40s) and Iris (50s) as they navigate the tricky online dating scene. Along the way they have the support and advice of renowned sex therapist Bettina Arndt and relationship counsellor Rob Tiller.
Things are hotting up for Lou Lou… although this week she wasn’t quite as much in control, due to a glass too many of Pinot Gris.
Big mistake. But now she knows it pays not to get too tipsy on those vital first dates.
Iris had a fun chat with a new mystery man, once she worked out why her computer was making a strange beeping noise.
And Astrid had a shock kiss from someone who turned out to have far too few degrees of separation from her own family life.
Astrid’s latest correspondent raises interesting questions about truth and honesty in internet dating, questions we hope some of our readers might answer for us.
We know there are many experienced internet daters reading this and we’d love to hear more from you. Rob and I are keen to promote discussion of the complexities of this dating process and are sure many of you will have good advice for our team.
So please join in and help make our comments section part of the learning process for our girls and many others who are plucking up the courage to follow in their footsteps.
Astrid: “Too close to home.”
It has been a really busy week, so busy that I have been falling into bed last thing at night and then sending some kisses. I started to wonder if I can’t find time to get on RSVP this week how am I going to fit someone into my life? So I have had a serious talk to myself and taken some action.
As suggested, I changed my age criteria, so now I am looking at men from 40–56. That’s good – more potential dates that way. I’m determined to send kisses every day, buy some stamps and send someone an email next weekend. Not sure yet who’s the lucky target!
I’ve also started to grapple with the mighty question of whether I will display my photo with my profile. Currently it is hidden but I had decided YES – I would be brave, be transparent, be visible.
That was last Friday until… strap in for this one.
My girls and I came home from a concert at school and I was in bed in my flanny PJs with my cuppa, some chocolate and my iPad. I logged on for a bit of kissing, wandering through the aisles of eligibles and, bingo, someone had sent me a kiss! It was so exciting. “I’d like to get to know you, would you be interested?” was his message.
Yes please. He hadn’t seen my picture but obviously my well-crafted profile had intrigued him. Let’s buy stamps, let’s talk… be still my beating heart! THEN I clicked on his profile. Let’s NOT talk. And NO I am not making my photo public for now.
This “gentleman” turned out to be a long-time family friend, one of my daughter’s best friend’s dads, who is recently and messily separated. Over the years his family and mine have spent countless hours together. I watched the marriage disintegrate and our friendships unravel as battle lines were drawn. I am currently counselling his kids, propping up his ex-wife. Now I read his profile and so much is untrue: “no baggage, separated a long time, financially secure, kids stay with him regularly”.
I was rocked and shocked; not that he was on RSVP but I have known this person 15-plus years and known him to be the most honest, dedicated, loving man. Yet his profile was absolute rot. I thought back to my own struggle to write my profile, wanting to be honest without frightening people and here someone I know has been so untruthful. What does this mean for everyone else online?
Despite all this I’m feeling fine. I’m finding this whole experience is fascinating, challenging, confronting, fun and a huge learning curve. Yes, it’s time consuming and I haven’t even been out with anyone yet but getting to know Bettina and Rob, learning from them, learning about myself and the world beyond my comfy family life is well worth it. And I love thinking and writing about the journey.
BTW – I turned down that kiss…
Rob says: I’m so inspired by your persistence, Astrid. Your story reminded me of a TED Talk I watched recently by Richard St John on 8 Secrets of Success. He talked about persisting through failure and c.r.a.p. (criticism, rejection, assholes, and pressure) as a key skill to achieving your goals.
“Rocked and shocked” sounds like an utterly reasonable response to discovering that a temporarily insane family friend is sending you kisses. He’s most likely struggling, probably in a lot of emotional pain, and desperately seeking something to take his mind off his disintegrating family. No excuse for compromising his integrity of course, but an RSVP headline like: “man in messy separation desperately seeking brunette distraction” would go down like a lead balloon.
Your positive attitude suggests your emotional muscles are growing stronger allowing you to roll with the punches, which is great. In a way you could consider your friend’s behaviour as a blessing in disguise. It’s an extreme illustration of how most of us can, to some degree, misrepresent ourselves to prospective dates for fear of not being accepted as we are. Listening to your instincts – as Lou Lou explains this week – will give you a sixth sense regarding the information you’re receiving from men online. That will help protect you from some potential disasters, although sometimes – as in this case – you only know the facts when a man’s identity is exposed.
Bettina says: I know what a shock it is to discover someone you know is kissing you, Astrid. I had a far more positive experience soon after I started internet dating. Nice looking guy, chatting back and forth and then I sent through my name and phone number. Within minutes came a phone call from a man roaring with laughter, who turned out to be the father of one of my son’s friends. I had never met him before but his son had been in our home many times. For me this was reassuring and gave me confidence that despite all the horror stories about internet dating, you can meet people who are just outside your own social network, people with whom you have a lot in common.
Clearly your experience was very different and it is a shame that you have run into this type of deceitful behaviour with one of your first contacts. It just doesn’t make sense that people think they can get away with spinning these sorts of yarns when surely the truth will out if a relationship does develop. It’s one of the great mysteries of internet dating and I’d love to hear our readers’ views about what is going on here.
And Lou Lou’s vowing not to drink too much next time…
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26 Responses to this article
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Kylie J June 29, 2012
This project is becoming increasingly irritating for me. This time it’s not Bettina though. Rob, you describe Lou-Lou as “successful, savvy and smokin” and finding yourself a bit intimidated.
Then you suggest the ‘trick is behaving around your date in ways that minimize triggering those feelings and the awkward behaviors that follow’.
How would she do that exactly? Be less successful less savvy and less smokin’?
I think of my friends who are all of the above and in fact plenty of the women I know who read the Hoopla fit into that category. Many of them have gorgeous husbands and boyfriends. None of them diminished themselves to win men over.
Are we saying Wendy H should have played down the fact that she was a radio superstar when she met her husband? That wouldn’t have been easy?
How on earth does Bettina A play down the fact that she’s a household name, attractive and opinionated.
Lou-Lou you get out there in your successful, savvy and smokin’ glory and meet a man who loves you for it!
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Kylie J June 29, 2012
I loved that column Wendy, I mean really, if you’d ‘married up’ there would have been very few men in that particular stratosphere.
I actually like someone who (like your husband) has a strong sense of themselves, and that can be whether they deliver organic veggies, build houses or run a bank.
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Bettina Arndt June 29, 2012
Actually I think Rob is pretty right when he talks about how many men feel… annoying as it may be. That’s what he is here for… not to tell us what we want to hear but to warn women when they might be making mistakes in how they relate to men, particularly on those critical first dates.
And when I meet men I certainly do try to show the normal ‘me’ rather than show off in any way. It’s just common sense that some males will be intimidated but if I behave in a relaxed manner and talk about my ordinary life etc they get over that and we can then see if we have anything in common.
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Rob June 29, 2012
I wondered if my response to Lou Lou might stir. I spent some time reflecting how I’d go about sharing men’s struggles with the female readership of The Hoopla without becoming ‘one of them.’ One of my goals in writing for The Dating Project is to share my knowledge of men and men’s issues with the intention of bridging the ‘us vs. them’ divide. It’s no secret that men are generally highly competitive both with each other as well as women. Which according to Anna Rosin in The End of Men isn’t really working for us in the current global culture. On some level we know it and we feel pressure from multiple sources to change; to become more emotionally and socially intelligent, to put our ‘strong face’ on to meet the world and take it off when we get home, to be vulnerable without being needy, and the list goes on. Every day, we are bombarded with messages that tell us we aren’t enough as we are and that we need to be stronger-faster-smarter-better men which can create intense self-judgement, self-criticism, inadequacy and insecurity.
I think both Wendy and Bettina get where I’m coming from regarding how ‘high-octane’ women can behave around men in ways that doesn’t subtly say ‘I’m better than you.’ Deep down most of us recognize that women possess many capacities and skills that we don’t. Unfortunately, instead of gracefully acknowledging our differences and cooperatively managing our strengths, our conditioning tells us to put on our ‘strong face’ and pretend we know more…which definitely isn’t our best face forward. However we’re learning. The current men’s movement is about helping men to ‘evolve’ by becoming more emotionally attuned and relationally aware human beings.
Finally, I really enjoyed The Hoopla article A Million Women are Reading This. I found it remarkably brave of Anne-Marie Slaughter to share her struggles so openly and with such grace. It really illustrated just how much both women and men are struggling under intense social pressures which are deeply impacting our ability to relate with each other.
http://thehoopla.com.au/women-have-all/
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MaxinMelbourne June 29, 2012
When it comes to the scary first phone call, in the days when I was single and online dating I used to keep a notepad beside the phone with a list of questions or topics for disucssion. It helped to keep the conversation light while finding out a little more about the other person. I clearly remember one guy who was only interested in my “dimensions” ie how big my boobs and my bum were. Others though were a pleasure, and we would talk for some time before organising a meeting. The only advice I would extend to anyone is to trust your gut feelings, and don’t be afraid to say no at any stage of the relationship.
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Serena June 29, 2012
Hello ladies. I do admire you for participating in “The Dating Game’.
And I admire Bettina enormously for having the chutzpa to bring the whole men/women catastrophe out in the open for debate.
I remember how difficult, embarrassing even, it was for me when I first started.
Eight years down the track, I want to enlighten you about my
experiences on various sites.
And it’s not good news.
I sincerely hope your experiences are better.THE PAINFUL TRUTH ABOUT DATING SITES.
written by a veteran of 8 years experience.
On the vast majority of 60ish male Profiles -
(I live in Brisbane so browse within 250 kms which includes the Darling Downs, Gold Coast and Northern Rivers, and have not looked elsewhere.
Am interested to hear if any readers from other areas have not found this to be their experience.)He can’t spell. Doesn’t use spell check. Probably doesn’t know how.
Can’t string a sentence together. Is obviously semi-literate.
Has a moustache, or some sort of unfortunate facial hair.
Can’t upload a reasonable in focus photo.
Is dressed for photo in a singlet, Hawaiian shirt, or some obviously nylon creation.
Or has his latest dress-up photo on show – Mexican hat or lei.
Has dog, cat, car, motor-bike, fish or boat in photo.
States he doesn’t buy stamps. Or like women who don’t pay.
Most of his focus is on sports related activities, TV, or fishing.
States he is looking for a soulmate, best friend, life-long loving partner with whom to walk along the beach at sunset or through the forest.On meeting. (None of which has been apparent from his profile.)
And meeting someone would only account for a minuscule percentage of profiles you have browsed.
(Some, not all, profiles are so wildly unrepresentative that it impossible to tell what sort of person he is – and even with subsequent emailing this doesn’t necessarily become clear.)
Doesn’t stand up when approached.
Is not 6’ as stated.
Has limp hand-shake.
Tries to kiss you hello.
Has thick gold chain, ostentatious ring, synthetic shirt, and tatts.
Has huge beer belly though states on profile he is of ‘average’ build.
Has gaps in his teeth, and the ones that are there, aren’t too clean.
Says haitch, youse and filum.
Talks about flexi-time. And fishing. And the effen’ greenies.
And how much of his money his ex ‘ripped him off for’ – or his kids are spending.
Talks about himself and doesn’t ask anything about you.
Doesn’t make any attempt to pay for the first drink, even though you would not allow him to or allow you to make a deal that you would shout the next.About me.
I am educated, independent, funny and have varied interests.
I am attractive, wealthy, and fit.
I was happily married to a substantial, intelligent and very successful businessman for 23 years.
I have travelled all over the world and intend to continue to do so.
I am as interested in world affairs as I am about my own country.
Politics fascinate me, and I follow Australian and international affairs.
I have recently done volunteer work in refugee camps in Africa because I can.
I have a commitment to humanitarianism and social equality.
I am a good entertainer, cook and bon vivant.And I have many female friends of my age who fit the same description.
BUT I HAVE FOUND HARDLY ANY MEN ON DATING SITES COME WITHIN A BULL’S ROAR OF WHAT I WANT IN A POTENTIAL PARTNER.
I have had a few relationships with men i have met on-line in the past 8 years, but they just didn’t have the spark required to sustain interest. And to be honest I compromised a lot as none were up to scratch in many areas.
I absolutely concede that many women’s profiles and pictures are unrepresentative, or untruthful. And many women are as rude (possibly more so) by not responding to contacts, even if politely in the negative.
Perhaps these sites are peopled with a majority of rude semi-literates.
Perhaps they are the majority of Australians, which is why RSVP and other sites are so popular.
I just naively thought that there would be the odd man of my dreams on-line.After 8 years of optimism and persistence, and so many disappointing meetings, I now know I was wrong.
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Serena June 29, 2012
Oh – and just to demonstrate the point I am making – this morning I received a ‘kiss’ from a truly frightening looking tradie, who states in his headline ‘NO ASIANS NEED APPLY’.
Am surprised he could spell Asians. -
Pauline June 29, 2012
Wow, Serena. I feel for you. How disappointing. Maybe it is Queensland.
I met my future husband at the races through my adult daughter when I was 44. We have been together for 12 years and are now engaged. He is 6 years younger than me. I haven’t ever tried internet dating but my daughter met her fiance through RSVP and they are getting married in November.
I wish you luck.
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Serena June 29, 2012
Yes Pauline, I am wondering if my experience is QLD’centric.
Though pretty sure it would apply in the top end as that is where I have spend much of my life.
Also need to highlight that my experience is that of the over 60′s – and as Bettina has so succinctly pointed out with her depressing statistics – that women like myself far out-number men in the same age range online. I think she mentioned by about 60%. I always knew it was going to be a tough quest, but didn’t want to admit to myself how tough, till now.
I know from many friends experiences, and those I have heard about, that the range of nice men in the younger age-groups is far more heartening.
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linda June 29, 2012
Oh Serena, I could have written your comment myself! So very true.
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Serena June 29, 2012
As could many of my fabulous 50+ female friends Linda.
Bugger.
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Anne June 29, 2012
Astrid, I find myself wanting to defend your long-time family friend. If he is known to be honest, dedicated and loving, could he, in this instance, be in a state of denial and self-deception about the real circumstances of his separation. I really value honesty, but feel sorry for this man somehow. In any difficult situation, each party tends to justify their own actions and deceive themselves about their contribution to the situation.
Iris, regarding Mr D, any chance that his photo is actually a joke? OK, maybe it is a bad joke, but from my distance, not wanting to date him, I find it rather amusing. And regarding telephone conversations, when I am anxious, I don’t chat or respond well on the phone. MaxinMelbourne’s suggestion of keeping a notepad beside the phone with a list of questions or topics for discussion sounds really helpful. -
The Huntress June 29, 2012
LOL I’m really enjoying this series, it’s helping me relive the days I dated.
Regarding guys on the phone, I think it’s definitely right not to judge men on their phone skills. But in saying that I remember when I was 18 and I must have had something going for me as I often had lads calling me to ask me out. Anyway, I remember one chap who seemed a bit shy, not my type, but nice enough, ask for my number. I was in a hurry and not thinking, so I gave it to him and walked away, promptly forgetting the whole exchange. A few days later I got a phone call from a number I didn’t recognise. I answered, a guy asked for me and on confirming who I was, I asked who he was. I didn’t remember at first, but as soon as I did I politely greeted him, asked how he was and…silence. Ok, change of tact, I asked how his week was and…silence. RRRrrriiiiigggghhhhhtttt, so then I asked if there was a reason for him calling me….silence. By now I was getting creeped out so I said I had to go and hung up.
Strangely enough 6 months later he rang me back and exactly the same thing happened. I still don’t understand the whole situation and why you would ring someone and say nothing. Very, very odd…
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Astrid June 29, 2012
I am more than happy for my family friend to be defended, became I really feel for him too. I think I was just shocked and knowing what was going on in his
Iife I couldn’t believe what he was doing. But in hindsight I can only imagine how lonely he is. Of course he wouldn’t put on his profile what was happening in his life, and I wouldn’t have been any the wiser except I knew him. Anyway, all is good. Being part of this project is great for me, I may never meet “the one” who knows, but I am learning a lot about Me and that’s great. I am loving reading everyone’s thoughts too. Keep them coming. -
Poppy June 29, 2012
I think it’s definitely time for women to be aware and more sensitive to the fragility of the male ego, especially where dating is concerned. It’s been a huge learning curve for me, having carried a massive chip on my shoulder for most of my life regarding males being threatened by my intellect, independence and strength. As a result, I seem to have walked a tightrope between attracting men who were either too ‘weak’ (and needed mothering) or too strong (and given their fear of my power, attempted to stifle and control me). Needless to say, neither type were satisfying in the long run, and it took a while for me to realise that I could not expect the men to change, ‘toughen up’ or ‘get over themselves’ without doing some major work on myself. I now believe it’s important to learn to love all men as they are, appreciate the different ways they are expressing the masculine and recognize that men are just as wounded, and valuable to the world, as women are. Since letting go of my feminist ideals and impossible standards I now seem to be attracting men who are much more confident and happy in themselves AND I’m much more able to reign in my own ego, communicate in a down-to-earth and sensitive way with them and set better parameters for relationships. With bumps and mistakes along the way of course, this is new territory for me!!
I love reading these articles, gives me a bit of extra support and learning for my own dating adventures!!-
Rob June 29, 2012
Beautifully expressed Poppy, love your work!
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Clairey June 29, 2012
Sometimes you have to feel the fear and do it anyway. I met my man online. I did not give him a picture, met him for lunch and I have been with him for 5 years and engaged to be married.
It is important to have fun. If you have nothing to talk about he is probably not for you. If he gives you the willies when he touches you he is probably not for you. If he makes your pants want to get up and dance… why not try a Samba? Have fun, be safe and most importantly be honest with yourself and well you just never know…. -
Anne June 29, 2012
Good on you Clairey! I also find that having fun with someone, particularly your partner is one of life’s special treats.
Asrid, I love your attitude to this dating project. Gaining a sense of deep satisfaction on the journey; isn’t that what life is all about?
I am enjoying reading so many interesting experiences and comments.
On the other end of the dating continuum – I have a dear friend who is shortly to marry a man she has never met. She is a highly intelligent, kind hearted woman whose family has chosen her husband for her and I have great optimism about her future! No dating at all!
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Pauline June 29, 2012
I have to say that my guy and I would never have met if not for the races. He lived miles from me and in a demographic that I had never considered. Snob that I was. So I agree with Clairey, sometimes you just have to give it a go. Yes, his grammar leaves a bit to be desired and he can’t spell, but so what, I can. And I also stroked the ego a little in the beginning and held back on the opinionated person that I was and I find I like me a lot better. Without even being aware of it, it goes my way all the time. You get a lot more with sugar than vinegar or however it goes. They are fragile creatures, men, and they need to feel that they are getting it right with women. You don’t have to become helpless but men love doing the caveman bit. I know I can kill a cockroach and change a lightbulb, I just choose not to. I also have a saying that I have passed on to my daughter and DIL, just plant the seed, and let him grow it. Then when whatever it is is suggested you just smile sweetly and say what a great idea. Works every time. And it doesn’t make you a wimp or less of a feminist, it just makes your life happier. Relationships are not games, you don’t win or lose.
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Sere June 30, 2012
Ms and Mr I’m SOoo Successful – I’m SOoo Intelligent – It’s ALL About ME – I WANT It ALL
Had a daughter and a son
Both of them were called ‘GIVE ME’
Do you think they could find or have a successful relationship either ON or off the internet
Moral of the story: WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE ON SELF
YOU DO NOT NEED TO STROKE THE MALE EGO, JUST TREAT PEOPLE AS EQUALS
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Louise July 12, 2012
I could’nt agree more that there are few, if any, men my equal, to meet on the internet. I also have half a dozen fabulously talented personal lady friends in their 50s in the same boat exactly! I would just like someone cultured, educated and healthy and intact emotionally and NOT closet-devoted to his own family still… so there would be time for us! Exactly the same as I can offer!
WHAT is the solution? -
Ladylikestodance July 23, 2012
Pauline I agree, there is great success to be had if one is just a little more tactful when communicating – especially with gents. I can relate to your predicament of gents feeling intimidated – has followed me all my life until i did a re -calibration on self.
There are quality men online; intelligent, chivalrous…tick a lot of boxes, but we all come with our own set of complexities and baggage. It is a matter of sifting and sorting what you can live with and what is a deal breaker. Frustratingly, most gents are too busy with work to have a proper relationship.
