I’M GLAD I’M AN ATHEIST
This is the reason I’m an atheist.
Religious protests in Sydney at the weekend. Image via The Daily Telegraph.
The events that led to Saturday’s scenes can be summed up in one sentence:
My imaginary friend is better than yours.
The film Innocence of Muslims was made by Christian fundamentalists “to encourage Muslims to question their faith”, according to script consultant and professional hate monger Steve Klein. One of the backers is Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who threatened to mark the anniversary of 9/11 by burning the Koran. It was promoted in Egypt by extremist Coptic Christians, persecuted by the Muslim majority.
There’s no doubt the trailer for the movie is offensive. (As one of my friends wrote on Facebook, “It is a crime against art that is highly offensive to anyone who loves film. The filmmakers should indeed be beheaded”.) Mohammed is depicted as a murderous thug, rapist and paedophile, who blackmails people into converting to Islam.
But how can any rational person use violence to defend someone who preached peace?
Fight in the Way of God against those who fight you, but do not go beyond the limits. God does not love those who go beyond the limits. [Quran 2:190]
The answer is in the word “rational”. No major religious text espouses extreme violence, but faithful followers cherry pick phrases to justify their actions. The Spanish Inquisition and the Crusade; the torching of Indian Muslims by Hindus; the Troubles in Ireland: Religion has forever been used as an excuse for man’s inhumanity to man.
The term ‘peaceful religion’ is an oxymoron.
This morning, the headline of Greg Sheridan’s piece in The Australian read, “The unacceptable face of multiculturalism”. A more accurate interpretation would replace the word “multiculturalism” with “religion”.
Angry youths need less religion and more work, Joan Smith writes in The Independent, and indeed, eight-year-old Ruqaya, who spoke to the Sydney chapter of Hizb ut-Tahrir about her love of jihad, needs an education outside an Islamic school.
We must fight – with words not fists – to keep Australia secular.
I wrote in February about my opposition to scripture classes and chaplains in public schools. The Gillard government boosted funding to the chaplaincy program, initiated by John Howard, to win the Christian vote.
In a clear breach of the ‘principal of state neutrality’, known as the separation of church and state, taxpayers are funding evangelicals to preach creationism to our kids.
My seven-year-old son insists God created the earth, no matter how many times I show him pictures of monkeys.
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54 Responses to this article
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Carolyn September 17, 2012
Excellent Tracey but I fear you may be preaching to the converted.
It’s the unreasonable who you have to reach, those who see no problem with equipping their kiddie with a sign advocating beheading.
Or those who indoctrinate their children to think that the world is only a few thousand years old.
I’m not really sure how we go about that one. -
Matt September 17, 2012
I was waiting for the Hoopla to jump into this today and when I finally saw this article by my favourite Hoopla writer, Tracey Spicer I anticipated an insightful piece on the challenges facing Islam in Australia and indeed the West today. Boy am I disappointed.
Sorry Tracey, your article is a copout. You writing that what happened on Saturday was simply symptomatic of all problems faced by all organised religions is crap. What has any of it got to do with the religious beliefs of the PM or opposition leader either? What has it got to do with Chaplains in schools? (None of whom teach beheading I’d imagine)
What we saw on Saturday was a form of fascism pure and simple. It’s no different to the Nazis. A group of belligerent thugs with their own warped view of the world using muscle and intimidation to get their own way. I feel we need to stop wrapping it up under the enormous title of Islam and label it truly for what it is. It’s fascism!
For example Australia’s first Muslim Federal MP, Ed Husic is a good and decent bloke. He has nothing in common whatsoever with these fascists and therein lies the problem when people call Saturday’s morons Muslims, it’s simply too broad a label.
Being an Atheist won’t make this very obvious and dangerous problem go away. These fascists must be identified and dealt with like any other group of thugs.-
Carolyn September 17, 2012
Matt, but it is about religion. The anger is disproportionate to us but not to a lot of Muslims.
Have a look at the Aussie muslims forum and read the thread “Police gas Sydney Protesters”
There is no outrage about the violence of the protestors but plenty directed towards the disrespect shown to Islam and plenty directed (rightly or wrongly) to the police. -
Yasmin Khan September 17, 2012
Well said Matt – this is a cop-out and a highly provocative poke at those that do have a belief in God. Tracey, you’re not an atheist because of what happened on the weekend, so don’t justify your beliefs by suggesting “I told you so”!
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royce September 18, 2012
It’s tribal warfare…. sometimes it’s embarrassing being a human!
“My seven-year-old son insists God created the earth, no matter how many times I show him pictures of monkeys.”
Don’t worry, that will pass along with the Eater Bunny, Santa and the Tooth Fairy…. or…. not.
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Tracey September 17, 2012
Agree, Matt. They are thugs. I’m just sick and tired of religion being used as an excuse for violence – by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus. Anyone with a faith. That’s the real cop out.
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Pseudonym October 16, 2012
But you know full well that if it wasn’t religion, it would be something else.
The war in Iraq was justified on the pretext of “freedom”, “security” and “democracy”. Nobody would argue that these things are therefore inherently bad.
Steven Weinberg famously delivered the cliche that for good people to to bad things requires religion. Apparently he didn’t know that Stanley Milgram had pretty compelling evidence proving this wrong over 35 years before.
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Lorraine September 17, 2012
Tracey a wonderful article. I reposted it in Facebook and Tweeted it. Simple and direct.
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Joni September 17, 2012
It’s not about religion, it’s about power. Have a good read of this article http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-incredible-muslim-hulk-proves-to-be-no-friend-of-islam-either-20120916-260e8.html
and you will see that much of what happened on Saturday is about protesting for the sake of throwing your weight around.
Christians are often less provoking and strident than atheists, so being glad you are an atheist is not something that will automatically change things.
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Janet September 17, 2012
It is definitely not about religion. I know many Muslims who would abhor and be embarrassed by such behavior. It was barbaric ignorance, plain and simple, that these protestors projected. Who had even heard of such a film before they brought it to everyone’s attention? It was Ridiculous, abhorent, behaviour that is worthy of the Stormfront movement. Also, it could even be portrayed as blasphemous behaviour, taking Allah and the prophet’s name for their own vain protest.
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Mrs Sabbatical September 17, 2012
Great article and I agree with RD comment about not being a public atheist. I love a good protest but when you have kids holding signs like there were, who’s opinion is that anyway? Adults need to think about what they are preaching to their kids (wrote about that today….. http://mrssabbatical.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/dont-do-as-i-say.html not meant to be a shameless plug )
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Sarah September 17, 2012
I’m a religious person but I am supremely open minded and realistic about where I am living and the time that I am living in. I don’t try to push my views on anyone. However it is disappointing that Tracey REPEATEDLY attacks SRE programs in public schools. She makes it out as if people are there teaching religious classes without the consent of parents. Some parents do not have the money to send their children to private Catholic, Protestant or Islamic schools, and SRE is a welcome chance for them to have their children educated in the faith of their choice. People like you who are not religious do not have to send their kids to SRE. SRE is only for students whose parents agree to have them learn. Stop twisting what SRE is about to further your agenda. You’re supposed to be a balanced journalist, but every time I read one of your articles, I lose more and more faith in your objectivity because you seem to be ranting about the same thing. I’ll be surprised if this comment gets published, but I have to give it a shot. I love The Hoopla, but there needs to be a bit of balance in terms of a conservative columnist also.
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Aengus September 17, 2012
Sarah,
I could tell you wrote a very large message as I saw it in my periphery, but sadly it was all lost on me as I couldn’t read a single word past this: “I’m a religious person but I am supremely open minded and realistic”. Is that like… irony or something? Maybe if I read the rest of the sentence it’d make more sense, but it’s dubious; religion and realism are mutually exclusive by definition.
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muttering housewife September 17, 2012
Tracey, show your son the picture of the newly discovered Lesula monkey, that is freaky.
So many reasons to be atheist, but one of the commenters to Waleed Ali’s article in today’s Herald put it well. It’s not about religion, it’s about tribalism. Us versus them, and narrowing the definition of us. Putting a patina of religion over it allows people to point to their imaginary friend and say it’s because of him (always him), and allow them to not take responsibility for their hate. Religion seems to make a lot of people pretty happy and more able to cope with their lives, we’ve just got to keep an eye on people who use it to justify themselves as right and everybody else as wrong. -
MICK September 17, 2012
To call what happened in Sydney at the weekend or what it’s reacting to “religion” as Tracey Spicer does peaks volumes of what a simply uneducated and bigoted place Australia is today. Tracey Spicer is about as uninformed a commentator as I’ve read – a series of cliches hung together as assertions that have no logical association with each other let alone evidence to support them.
I mean only in Australia can someone get a hearing running together a report on some angry young Muslims mimicking behaviour they’ve seen on TV, a story about some legal obfuscation by some Church official (as told by 47 Minutes for God’s sake!), scripture classes at State schools, Richard Dawkins, Tony Abbot and call it serious commentary to justify a claim about something the author hasn’t bothered to do the most elementary research on – faith, God and religious differences in the world as it really is.
In the good old days, such a rant would be best understood as the best a bigot can do.
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Lorraine September 17, 2012
SRE can be taught outside of schoolhours. And I mean any religion if they still believe in fairy tales that is.
Tracey simple and direct and I thought it was great. I was brought up Catholic but no longer believe and if others want to believe good, Let them follow it outside of any one elses business, and teach whatever they like. But leave secular society and school out of it. I have a half Chinese grandson who is beign taught Chinese outside of school hours So be it with SRE. It has no place in schools.
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amd September 17, 2012
Also spot on.
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Lisa Lintern September 17, 2012
I’m not sure the issue of religion driving conflict is such a black and white issue. The Troubles in Ireland were also about nationalism…and what remains today is fueled mostly by criminality. The violent protestors on Saturday are probably no more religious than Tracey. Wendy is right – what matters here is that we focus on the thugs and troublemakers that hi-jack religion to camouflage their own true intentions.
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amd September 17, 2012
Spot on.
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Rhoda September 17, 2012
I would like to hear from the Muslim community but I did read somewhere that Muslims reacted to Pastor Tony Green’s promotion of the video more so than to the video which was perfectly hateful. This man is a nutter but has a congregation so I think we do have to consider the religious aspect, particularly as the name of God has been invoked by both sides. The balance of law and order should not rest with men like him.
Tracey, you reminded me of something my young 5 year old told me when he came home one day from his first RE lesson. He wanted to die he said, so he could be with the angels! I was more than a little disturbed as you can imagine!
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Nareen Young September 17, 2012
The Troubles were, and are about Nationalism and discrimination, but like in this instance, religious bigots will use any excuse to carry on in unreasonable ways. I’m with Tracey. I’m tired of religious influence in our society, from shool chaplains to marriage equality to this ridiculous display.
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Matt September 17, 2012
Christmas, Easter, Religious Charities, Catholic Hospitals, Wesley Mission. Religion has some very positive influences in our society (and I’m not overly religious)
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Glenn September 17, 2012
I think it`s fair to say that religion gives a hell of alot of people with dodgy wiring and a pack mentality a place to hide and feel needed/colude . But for the majority that believe in a greater power do so for personal solice and for most religion does bring great happiness and stregnth in times of need.
I don`t think I could blame anyone for proclaiming atheisum though , let`s face it our news reels are filled with the bad bits (they sell better than the positive) and alot of the trouble is terrible.
My view is it`s the people that are the trouble not the group and that even goes into any group , political , sporting fans , etc they can all be open to infiltration and splinter groups , power as someone metioned is the catalyst, more so than the religion itself.The true power of controling violence whether it be religious based or any other kind needs to remain with the very strong vocal / sane majority , maintaining good governments that can make the tough decisions on law and order.
I`m very proud of two things after Saturday`s events , one being the police response it was effective and beautifully put together (well done guys). The other is us being Australians , the condemnation of this garbage and any other unnessasary group violence in the past couple of years , no matter what the beef has been overwhelmingly solid .
Glenn
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Kate September 17, 2012
@ Sarah, last time I checked there’s a place you can go to every Sunday called Church where you can get all the free religious instruction your heart so desires. State schools should be a place where free-thinking is encouraged; I’m afraid religious instruction of any sort is incompatible with this ideal.
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Catherine September 17, 2012
Thank you Tracey – the real risk here is that we let religions continue to run the debate. Religion & State must remain separate. I don’t care what belief system anyone chooses to entertain – but I do care when it interferes in anyone else’s life. Believe what you like – but accept it is only a “belief”, not a fact. There is no one belief system; if you adhere to one – you just have to accept that others won’t agree with you. Freedom of speech trumps your belief that you should never be challenged.
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TMH September 17, 2012
I agree with you Kate! If I wanted to educate my children in my religious beliefs, I’d do it at home and leave the school to teach algebra!
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Frances September 17, 2012
Absolute cop out and just a platform for Tracey to continue her bigoted rant against Christianity. “Respected journalist”…not any more. I’m over you marginalizing those who choose to believe in something bigger than themselves (whatever that may be) whist all the while expecting others to accept your staunch position as an atheist. Hypocritical.
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Concerned September 17, 2012
“But how can any rational person use violence to defend somebody who preached peace”
- i would be interested to know if you have read the qur’an besides this one verse. There is plenty of violence preached ( as in the bible). And the religion itself was born out of violent conflict and wars of expansion.
Otherwise a good article.
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Sarah September 17, 2012
Kate, SRE is not just for Christians. Plus, SRE time also has allocations for parents who want to teach their children ethics. Some things are better taught by teachers/professionals. I am sure the Muslims can attest to this because the educated ones were not out there on the weekend doing their faith a bad name. Sunday services are for worshipping, not teaching. They’re done as a community. And most parents choose not to go to church but use SRE as a forum for their children to have some moral compass. That is their choice under law. we can still have a separation of church and state without doing away with half an hour of week of lessons that teach something a little more humanitarian. because that’s what most religions preach anyway. My comments earlier were directed at the blatant anti-Christian rants (as Frances describes them) that seem to make up many of Tracey’s comments. She undermines some of her articulate arguments when she brings up things that are not relevant, which are obvious and which do not relate to the core assertions that she is trying to make in the piece.
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Carolyn September 18, 2012
Sarah, SRE is not taught by teachers. In fact teachers don’t like it at all.
Ethics classes are not available at all schools and the church hierarchy have beed doing their darndest to get rid of it.
Personally I think none of these “classes” should be held as none of them meets the rigorous criteria that the rest of the subjects have to meet in order to be taught to our children.
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Annie September 18, 2012
Love the way open minded and supremely open minded Christians always use terms like ‘rant’ and ‘strident’ with atheist in the same breath. Originality please. Quick. Someone tell us how Hitler was an atheist…
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Val September 18, 2012
Tracey, If my son came home to tell me that I would hit the roof! Not at him but at the system that allows any sort of religious teachings in our schools. School is for facts, leave the brainwashing for after school RE, that’s what I was sent to. Not that it did much good. Tracey is right, these people justified their actions based on their religion when in reality they are a bunch of thugs. Take away religion and they are a bunch of meat heads attacking property and police because they didn’t like a film. As for the creators of the film they were deliberately provoking, but it was just a film.
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Jess September 18, 2012
This is a pathetic arguement. I agree people can take things too far, but how simple minded are you to blame it on a faith. How about we educate the children on prejudices and fascists so that they can correct their bigot parent’s. Maybe even grow to have their own opinion. People are so quick to place the blame. Is it because they are too lazy to look at the whole picture… Take away religion in schools? How about we educate our children on all religions and give them the choice of where their faith lies. Help them respect the world and all it’s diversity, rather live in a cynical world of black and white.
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cuisle September 18, 2012
This is a secular nation where religious bigots have far too much to say. Christmas & Easter were pagan festivals before the christians took them over. I have just started my own religion, anyone can join, the only criteria being ‘no imaginary friends’. Now where is it that I can apply for funding and tax exemption from the government
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sami September 18, 2012
@Sarah
I had to endure SRE at primary school and I still remember it. It was called ‘scripture’ and we learnt all about jesus and christianity but NOTHING of other religions. From what I understand it is still the same today. If each week the class focused on a different religion and explained their belief systems, fine. Telling children to believe in a christian god is an entirely different thing. That kind of thing can EASILY be taught outside of school hours. If you think the church is not for that, then do it yourself.
I could go into a christian bookstore RIGHT NOW (I’m an atheist and even I know where my local ones are!), choose a book about christianity and read it to a child. I’m sure if you want your kid to learn about it that bad YOU can spare half an hour a week teaching it.
“SRE time also has allocations for parents who want to teach their children ethics” – if a parent cannot teach their child ethics then they should not have a child. It’s not that bloody hard to be an ethical person.It being an alternative for kids who cannot be sent to private schools due to financial reasons- that is not the problem of the public school system, nor should it be. Yet the government is throwing money at it. What would you do if the govt stopped funding it? Withdraw your child from the school? No, I’m pretty sure that you would teach your child yourself. I would hope you would anyway.
I don’t care what religion anybody is, I have friends and family members of a variety of faiths and that is fine with everyone. I ask questions and learn about their religions and they’re glad to teach me and it’s nice that we can share that information without pressure or judgement. I will gladly defend their right to believe anything they choose. But I will not agree that christianity classes in schools are acceptable.
Everyone is born atheist.
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Marnie September 18, 2012
It is human nature to react when something or someone threatens something we hold dear. People become angry and react according to the standards or morals they live with.
Some Muslims will react with the violence they knew in their homeland. Most will react with the values they learned here. It is really not such a big deal. Whether you believe them to be right or not, let the Muslims have their beliefs, the Christians have theirs and RESPECT their right to do so. Teach all children about ALL religions, give them an understanding of the good things as well as the not so good, but teach them to RESPECT the right of the individual to practise the religion of their choice.
As always the answer lies in teaching the young so they grow with tolerance. -
sue bell September 18, 2012
the giving of religious instruction in government schools is a deliberate act by the State government to foist religious belief on to our children. In Victoria the act say religious instruction MAY be given, the government has chosen to interpret the word MAY as MUST and refuses to allow philosophy to be substituted. Parents have to actively opt out of RE for their children. Those children not doing re are taken out of the classroom as if they are different/wrong/bad the re children remaining in the classroom. This makes re appear to be an acceptable lesson as part of the curriculum, not an option.
Do not be fooled these re lessons are not simple moral, nice behaviour lessons. I was shocked one day in a local shop when my daughter introduced me to a stranger as the lady who taught her about god at school. I had signed the forms to keep her out of the class but the school had ignored it (government school). I explained to the woman that my child would no longer be in her class and as we were leaving I wished her a happy Women’s Day. Her answer, she did not believe in women’s lib as the husband/father is the head of the household and the woman was but the neck on which he rested as the head, as with religion the man was in charge.
I believe in equality and this is not the rubbish I taught my children.
Religion has no place in school unless it is taught as comparative religion so we may better understand the thinking of religious communities to promote peace and community not segregation. Philosophy and clear thinking should be taught and at all times the understanding that atheism is a valid belief, a belief held by a massive number of Australians (check the latest census figures), should also be taught. I also believe we should not have religious schools as they also divide our community and waste our money. Children bought up in religious schools have no chance to hear other views, this results in bigotry and ignorance. It is a form of continuous brain washing. Religion is a private belief and should be treated as such, being taught at home and in a place of worship. -
Jenny September 18, 2012
Religious education should be left to churches and the church schools, or the home. Education about the various significant world religions and their effects on civilization and history could be taught as a component of social sciences, because whether we like it or not religion has been a large factor in the development of many nations. Personally, I was a believer when young, but have become atheist as I grew older and more mature in my reasoning. Loss of belief actually made me a little sad – it had been of some comfort to me in times of trouble.
Politics and religion should NEVER be combined, but in reality they often are, and this combination can be blamed for many of the wars that have afflicted the world. Or so we are led to believe. In fact, I think one of the comments above may have suggested a better version, and that is “tribalism”. I don’t believe that any religious group can honestly believe that their God is promoting war, it is the population itself which has decided that their way is the superior way, and those disagreeing must be either converted or eliminated. -
Anna September 18, 2012
Wow. A few people in Sydney behave very badly, using religion as an excuse to attack American foreign policy, and Tracy Spicer decides that all religion, but specifically Christianity, is at fault again. I get tired of this. I get tired of having to begin replies with the disclaimer that I am a tertiary educated Feminist, with a Capital F, who is Christian. Don’t patronise me and others who believe in Christ.
And be honest in your writing Tracy, and other folks, you don’t denigrate other religions – that would be racist, wouldn’t it? It’s the Christian faith that fires you all up. Sometimes I just wonder, what are you afraid of? Is the message of Christ SO powerful that you need to remove your children, and belittle the intelligence of those who choose to believe, and scratch out all evidence of it’s existence in Australian civil society and public discourse? No one is a superior being just because they don”t believe in a God, sorry Mr Dawkins. So please people, a little civility and more respect please.
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sue bell September 18, 2012
A little civility from Anna would also go a long way. it is not just Christianity, it is any religion being forced on us in government schools that upsets me. I don’t belittle your belief, I don’t even belittle people who believe in magic or fairies or alternative therapies. A government school is a school, not a place for religion, except to understand how the world thinks. The blatant misinterpretation of the word MAY as MUST by the Victorian government shows they are introducing religious belief by stealth. The insisting on counsellors in schools being from a religious background and being paid for by tax payers is another religionization of our schools. These RE teachers and counsellors are all from Christian religion backgrounds that’s why it seems only Christians are criticised. I’ll argue with them all.
There is an area of the brain the reacts to religion, when stimulated (under lab conditions)some people have wonderful ecstatic religious experiences, non believers don’t they just have a good time. Therefore the ability to believe is all in your own head.
There have always been unbelievers, in the story of the battle of Troy and it’s aftermath with the settlement of Italy, one of the tribal chiefs is referred to as ‘he who has no gods’.
I have brought my children up to read widely, question everything and understand science. I have no fear of Christ’s message, they were never new to the world but based on older Babylonian and Egyptian ideas. They are a good guide as to how to get along together as a community it is the interpretation and rewriting of these messages and the ramming them down our throats for hundreds of years that really makes me mad. It is the assumptions that I have faced for 60 years that believers are better than non believers and it is the cruelty meted out to me by believers including seriously vicious bullying by a good Christian, that thirty years on still brings me to tears and desperation, that I object to.
Enjoy your beliefs if they help you understand the world and be a better, kinder person, don’t force them on our children in school, don’t force them on me (yes I’m talking to all you door knocking proslytising people) and understand that everything in our lives is up for questioning and a laugh. Let’s face it life for humans with our petty worries, hubris and stupidities is often ridiculous and we need to laugh at it all. Gallows humour is a human trait and I will laugh at every religion if I think it is funny. -
Will Marshall September 18, 2012
There is only one answer, that is for everyone to become atheists! Religion goes away, so does a
lot of the crazy -
Joni September 19, 2012
Tanveer Ahmed wrote an excellent article for religion–
A case for religion… check this outhttp://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/losing-your-religion-has-link-with-disorders-20120221-1tloj.html
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Joe Paris Lee September 20, 2012
I’m a Christian, Tracey, but I agree with you: I’m glad you’re an atheist too.
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Helen September 20, 2012
I just find the idea that blaming people who behave badly for the decision to be an atheist is sort of lazy thinking. It’s the practitioners, not the notion of religious belief or the idea of God itself that’s wrong. It’s the practitioners and their flawed interpretation.
I should add, I’m agnostic. Not religious.
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Joni September 21, 2012
That’s very true.
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Kate September 22, 2012
@ Sarah, in fact I shudder to think of the ‘ethics’ and ‘morals’ my child could be learning in SRE classes. Are they the same ‘ethics’ and ‘morals’ that tell women they don’t have control over their own bodies, or the ones that dictate it’s better to watch a beloved family member die a slow and painful death instead of the way they so choose for themselves, or the same ethics that dictate you shouldn’t be friends with your childhood bestie anymore because they’ve just come out of the closet. SRE divides our children, and sows the seeds of intolerance in otherwise freethinking, rational, questioning minds.
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Lulu September 22, 2012
It seems that people need to believe in “something”. I believe I will have another wine……
My favourite line when any one starts a conversation about religion is “Any idiot can invent a religion, it takes a real fool to believe in one”. The subject usually quickly changes after that
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Phil September 26, 2012
Re: My imaginary friend is better than yours.
Don’t they agree that it is the same imaginary friend. It’s just the messenger they are arguing about. -
Marion R Ivanic October 16, 2012
Why blame God because bad men exist, this is not God. I do respect your views and agree with most, but it’s a pity you have to connect bad people with God and give this as part of your reason for not believing in something which is beyond scientific understanding. Being beyond scientific understanding does not mean it does not exist, that sounds a bit arrogant to me, like a lot of the remarks above. Most people who sincerely believe in a higher power, have had direct experiences that bring about that belief and a change in their lives which they are unable to deny.
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Charles October 17, 2012
It doesn’t really matter what you believe as long as you aren’t a dick to someone else.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with religion, it’s just when people use it as an excuse to do bad things.
If there were no religions, people would simply find another excuse to cause suffering.
Proof of God’s existence should never come up in a logical argument.
Believing in something is a matter of faith.
Trying to prove, or disprove God’s existence is a waste of time, as belief has nothing to do with proof.
Have fun guys.
