IT’S NOT ABOUT THE BREAST, OKAY?
What has topless sunbathing got to do with breastfeeding, exactly?
If you’re David Koch, and you’ve created a controversy by airing your outdated comments about breastfeeding on air, then a topless sunbathing analogy is one way to keep digging your grave. Keep going, Kochie.
Koch was confronted this morning by a nurse-in at the Martin Place studios of the Sunrise program, where about 40 breastfeeding mothers gathered to peacefully protest against Koch’s controversial comment last week that it was okay for women to breastfeed in public (thanks, David) as long as it was “classy.”
Whatever that means.
Mothers gather outside Channel 7′s studios in Martin Place this morning. Photo by John Grainger – The Daily Telegraph.
Koch’s comments followed the outrageous case a week earlier of Liana Webster, who was asked to leave the Bribie Island Aquatic Centre when she decided to feed her 11 month old baby poolside.
The centre has since apologised, as they should, because breastfeeding in public is not illegal.
Turns out David meant “discreet” and on his program this morning he didn’t resile from his opinion.
Breastfeeding was okay in public as long as it wasn’t in a high traffic area, just as topless sunbathing was okay in public as long as it wasn’t in a high traffic area either. Not between the flags, okay?
Breastfeeding is not about the breast, it’s about the feeding. It’s not a “phwoar” moment, and it’s not offensive, except in the minds of those who should be ignored.
Rebecca Perrin from Tempe joined the nurse-in – organised by anti-sexism group Destroy The Joint – and said that the whole controversy was about victim blaming: “It seems that when a basic human right is violated it becomes about finding blame in the woman.”
She’s right. The debate becomes framed around what women should be doing, how they should be acting, and how they should be more careful about not offending.
“Should women be more discreet?” was the question posed by Sunrise.
Should nursing mothers be more discreet? Perhaps Grant Denyer should be? Photo by John Grainger – The Daily Telegraph.
Frankly, the question they should be asking is: “should we have a word to weatherman Grant Denyer about his puerile, schoolboyish attitude to breasts?”
Just before the breastfeeding story went to air this morning, Denyer broadcast his live cross standing between two domed buildings (breasts, geddit?) while he make lame double entendres (“I’ll keep you abreast of things,” geddit?) and made his hands look like he was squeezing the “breasts” he was standing between. Oh please.
It’s no wonder offensive attitudes about one of life’s most basic and necessary acts abound when viewers are still subjected to such embarrassing crap. Shame Sunrise is such a “high traffic area” – they really need to be a bit classier about their attitudes.
Have you tuned into this controversy? What do you think?
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113 Responses to this article
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Monica January 21, 2013
I think Kochie’s remarks were appalling and the analogy with sunbathing way out of line. In addition to breastfeeding my children (in 2004-2007) in cafes, buses, swimming pools, and work, I did so on busy streets and, on two occasions, in court. I was NEVER asked to move or be more discreet. In fact, it was quite affirming for me that I was able to feed my daughters the most nutritious food without being made to feel ashamed. How sad that so many others haven’t had this experience.
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Joni January 21, 2013
EXACTLY! I breastfed 4 children up to a year each and often had to breastfeed in a country town on the street due to lack of facilities while travelling. People mainly congratulated me for doing the right thing. One lady stopped me and suggested I’d be “more comfortable in the toilet.” I said. “I don’t think so! Nowhere for me to sit, smelly and unhygienic?” More comfortable for her, I suppose!
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Pseudonym January 21, 2013
One friend’s answer to that one was “How about you eat your lunch in the toilet?”
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Rachel January 21, 2013
It is really alarming that breastfeeding has become such an area of dilemma for new mothers. I breastfed both my children until they were two years old (towards the end it was just at night time) and it was a very normal, happy part of their nourishment – both physical and emotional. I fed them in public all the time, although I would always wear clothes that made it easier for the baby to have access. I would always feed in a way that was “discreet” – although this was as much for the child as for me. For example, in a restaurant, I would choose a corner table where not everyone was going to gawp at me. I found that it was very difficult to feed a baby in a noisy, busy area – they often got too distracted. What is needed are more quiet spaces in shops etc where mothers can go to feed their babies. What saddens me is the fact that breastfeeding now seems to be a rare thing. In the interests of infant health we should all be doing whatever we can to encourgage breastfeeding.
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aussieblonk January 21, 2013
Two of the biggest headline stories of recent months, have been breast feeding in public, & Gay marriage. BOTH should be legal, accepted, & encouraged. Women and Gays are still made to feel uncomfortable, even ‘dirty’, something that really pisses me off. No doubt both Mel & Nat would stop Mr Denyer, had they been able….at the same time, it’s a fact, all of us have opinions. Ratings would suffer if Sunrise kept offering up the same tripe over a period of time….OH! hang on….
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lizlee January 21, 2013
I breast fed my children back in the 80′s in, amongst other places, a high school meeting regarding behavior of older stepchild and in front of a high school class (mixed sex) on caring for babies. No-one objected. Have we gone backwards?
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Pseudonym January 21, 2013
lizlee, in a school environment, I suspect you’d be amongst friends. I would wager that most of those who object to babies eating in public have never had babies of their own.
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Christine January 21, 2013
I was watching this morning – which I hardly ever do – so cynically they did win me as a viewer – but I was disappointed by the femal hosts – they were all giggly and obviously sitting on the fence – why weren’t they speaking out? They are in powerful positions too – just like David Koch – they could have turned his negative into a positive powerful message – an opportunity missed.
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Zeli January 21, 2013
I am certainly no fan of that man, but I support his comment. No one is saying don’t breast feed, but what is wrong with expecting some level of manners and discretion from mothers? How hard is it to drape a shawl for heavens sake?
Mothers are not exempt from being considerate to others – and I wonder if this sense of entitlement and lack of awareness is what they are teaching their children.-
lynne January 21, 2013
To suggest that manners are needed suggests that something offensive or rude is being done. Therefore, there is something rude or offensive about breastfeeding. We need to look at the underlying attitude Zeli.
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John Jay January 21, 2013
FEMINISM.
Breast Feeding in public is Not the Lord’s wish.Feminism designed to debase women at it’s lowest.
Feminism is not understood.
Feminists are damaged women .. they do not have normal femininity.
Feminism is a dark force stratagem.
Feminism involves a negative energy.
It works like this -
(this is high knowledge and is not theory)
The dark force, on a mental level, attempt to draw the woman in question into a state of discontent concerning men .. they tailor thought-forms to appear to be the woman’s own thoughts (they are not) so she will accept them as her own .. thought-forms designed to stir a greater and greater sense of injustice .. the unjust way men treat women .. this all to draw the woman more and more deeply into a state where she may be willing to open to a negative energy (supplied by the dark side) in order to fight the injustice.
Some women do not fall for this. Some do and in time on an inner level open to this negative energy in order to, they believe, be better able to fight the injustice .. believing this energy to be their masculine side, or an inner strength, or however this has been presented to them (this is a deception – it is none of these things .. it is a toxic and harmful energy that the dark force wants in their system) .. this energy becomes a part of them and over time changes them .. they change from natural, warm, feminine women into something less natural and colder.
This energy is consciousness changing.
I imagine this is why the term “feminazi” exists .. a colourful but in truth perceptive word that in it’s own way touches on a reality .. the negative energy in the feminist’s system.
A feminist is a woman who has been outwitted by God’s enemy .. something that happens all to easily in today’s world, for the surrounding culture is spiritually blind and as such non-protective on so many levels .. I refer to the culture of science.
John Jay.-
Jo Hilder January 21, 2013
El Shaddai – “many-breasted one” – one of God’s many names. This imagery is beautiful, coined no doubt by a people whps’ culture was accustomed to openly viewing the female breast used for its intended purpose.
If God intended women to feed their babies in public toilets, then our breasts would be situated in a far more practical place.
Because She’s pretty smart like that.
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Feminist of Longstanding January 21, 2013
Sorry for you John Jay. Trolling is such a nasty way to spend your time one earth. That time is finite for us all, and hiding out in Mama’s basement stirring up negativity with excruciatingly bad grammar and flawed diatribe is such a poor way to waste what your god/cosmic muffin has given you.
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mochuck January 21, 2013
John Jay you are everything that is wrong with men.
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John Jay January 21, 2013
Every thing i write is from direction of the Divine.
He cannot be questioned by those who cannot understand His power.
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Roger Colclough January 21, 2013
I see JJ, you are God’s representative on earth. Is this position just a temp until Jesus returns …….. or as I suspect are you just stark raving mad?
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Klaus January 21, 2013
I probably don’t need to tell you this, but just ignore that John Jay character. He occupies the Piers Hackerman blog and is the definitive troll.
I am confident that archaic attitudes like that of Koch and others are part of a decreasing (and I’d like to think disappearing) mindset. And rest assured that most men – myself included – are embarrassed at the fact that these twits exist. and seem to have a disproportionate voice in the media.
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Alice Shaw January 21, 2013
Nope, this is just a loopy theory there JJ, you old teaser you. Look at your coming over here to The Hoopla to spout your out there religious beliefs. You clearly enjoy interacting with strong intelligent women and you appear to be up for a laugh. Good for you, humour is important.
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vanessay January 21, 2013
I do not find John Jay amusing, just scarey. Is this site moderated, I think it is time someone read carefully what this person is saying, contacted him/her to ask why they are exposing themselves to “the dark force strategem” that is feminism and that is under discussion every day on this site. It is worrying.
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NarelleM January 21, 2013
John Jay, please dear boy resume taking the medication. As we can all see doing without it is doing your mind no good at all!
Seriously, so glad ninkompoops like you are in the minority and are only worth a dime a dozen.
Bet you were not breatfeed at all
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Boobies January 21, 2013
Hilarious, thanks for the laugh. Maybe you wish you were breastfed, much better than spitting the dummy over womens rights. With some weird connection to dark forces.
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Sharon Morris January 21, 2013
I know it’s wrong to engage in ad hominem to make your point, but it has to be said, Kochie is a moron. Now can people stop watching him? All this attention just fuels his stupidity, turn off ch. 7 in the morning if you want to make a point he will hear.
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Natasha January 21, 2013
If you’re out and about and notice a woman breastfeeding, I might suggest that you’re too preoccupied with others and not with what you’re doing. I walk through crowded shopping centres all the time and rarely do I notice other people, I certainly don’t stop to stare while they’re eating. There is a lot more flesh on display from men without shirts and women in skimpy clothes then what you see from a breastfeeding mother. I don’t put a blanket over my head when I eat or drink, why should a baby?
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Rosie January 21, 2013
Natasha – excellent comment. No more needs to be said.
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Amber January 21, 2013
That was some car crash TV this morning! I was CRINGEing at Grant’s boob gags….and Kochie just wanted to kill him. It was soooo bad it was funny. Someone needs to send them some Rescue Remedy with a ribbon and a funny hanging off it. Good grief………
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David January 21, 2013
This morning I heard another justification for why the woman in question shouldn’t have breast-fed her baby at the pool. It was because that’s not a “safe” place to do it – what with all the noise, sun and proximity to water. I guess if she were actually perched right on the edge of the pool, I might agree but, in general, the test should be: “Would anyone have a legitimate objection if she were bottle feeding a baby?” If the answer is: “No”, then mind your own business.
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steve January 21, 2013
Really? So he didn’t resile? Big deal. I don’t agree with him either, but it’s just an alternative opinion, and it’s been stated with much less vehemence than your browbeating article. You appear to be angry with hin for attempting to make people”think like him”, while you are guilty of the same sin. So now I don’t agree with him, but also don’t respect you. Your attack and use of poorly constructed criticism of the show reduced the class you’re supposed to have, not theirs. Maybe think it through next time. Advice suitable for both of you.
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Robyn January 21, 2013
Baby in public is hungry and crying. Give baby a ‘bust in the mouth’ as my old Dad used to say. Baby is content and quiet. Everybody is happy! Kochie is ignorant and offensive. Give him the ‘other’ bust in the mouth’. Kochie is quiet. Everybody is happy!
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Sharon Morris January 21, 2013
John Jay thanks for the giggle, best Ive had in ages. I’ll be sure to share this with my husband when he gets home, he’ll laugh harder than me.
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SusiQ January 21, 2013
This probably makes a lot more sense when you join the dots…Channel 7 boss is Kerry Stokes, who was one of the first public figures to come out in support of Alan Jones. This is the sort of people we are dealing with here. Channel 7 won’t change. I stopped watching it ages ago – I just download their good programs and bypass the whole crappy organisation.
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NarelleM January 21, 2013
Spot on SusiQ, channel 7 is persona no grata in our houselhold, they continue to push an ultra conservative line and it’s just pointless drivle any way.
Koch was interesting when he first started all those years ago, but now I think his million dollar salary has gone to his head.
Sunrise is just an advertising mecca anyways, no real news is reported there, just agendas they wish to push.
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Jane January 21, 2013
John Jay, you are everything that is wrong with religion.
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RogerColclough January 21, 2013
Strange how fundamentalist Christians and Islamists have such similar views on women. They are afraid of their reaction to the female body and perhaps feel the need to masturbate in dark places whilst self flagellating to ease their sin
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Nat January 21, 2013
I really didn’t like his comment about “classy” and that he’s supporting public breastfeeding but only if they face the wall like his daughters do!
Imagine he said that about gay and lesbian couples, a disabled person or another race or religion? “Im all for gay and lesbian rights, but they need to show discretion and not show affection in a high traffic area” all of the above people are protected by the very same law as a Breastfeeding mother. Apparently topless sunbathing is ok, as are skimpy bikinis! Clearly women’s bodies are only ok if used in a sexual way. Use your breasts for feeding and he has a problem!! -
jan January 21, 2013
From what I’ve read online today it appears that “veiny”and “floppy”tits are the problem. Apparently slim women with perky breasts are deemed discreet and therefore acceptable.
I’ve also learnt that b/feeding in public is as taboo as changing a dirty nappy at a restaurant.
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Karen January 21, 2013
I just love Social Media, this is so good, I have enjoyed the whole thing, “uplifting” we could say. I saw Grant Denyer, he’s got to be joking ha ha…imagine if we could come up with testicle jokes, they are the ugliest things I have ever seen, even in the wild.
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Karen January 21, 2013
Lisa Wilkinson would have spoken out, she is a leader. Those women missed a great opportunity.
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Karen January 21, 2013
The woman was probably on the edge of the pool because she had to supervise the other toddler in her life. It is difficult for career men to understand just how much juggling you have to do.
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DiVert January 21, 2013
Just read the news and laughed out loud about the mention of topless sunbathing and I just loved that the Hoopla has the same thought as me – keep digging that hole Kochie. I just finished breastfeeding and these types of comments just would have served to make me uncomfortable when doing so in public.
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Evie January 21, 2013
I am very concerned about the lack of intelligent, educated and objective men in influential media roles. Young men are being fed these disrespectful and antiquated messages from Kochie – that women should cover themselves when feeding in public (and really what right does he have to direct women in how they breastfeed) – and Kyle Sandilands – the messages he sends to young men are highly concerning in that they encourage men to disrespect women and think its acceptable to callthem fat, ugly etc.
How are the young men of today and tomorrow going to treat our daughters? I am terrifed. -
Elizabeth January 21, 2013
It takes courage to breastfeed in public. It’s embarrassing to think of the damage done just in pointing this whole thing out…
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Tracy January 21, 2013
People like Koch see women’s bodies as sexualized parts, available for the male gaze. For him breasts are sexual and their maternal function contradicts this basic rule. “Good” mothers should not be seen or heard. People like Koch should remember that they came out their mother’s vagina (or her belly for a caesar) and may well have been nourished by her breasts. That’s life.
Pity he thinks it is his place to undermine and shame women and call it a debate. Breastfeeding is protected by law; it’s a woman’s human right to breast feed and not be disciminated against. I think he should be quiet on an issue he knows very little about.
It was a hard show to watch – thankfully the segment was on in the first hour so I could turn it off. The ra ra jokes were really bad and made a mockery of the breastfeeding mothers and women in general. It is evident that Patriarchy rules in the offices & studios of channel seven; I have given it the big flick in my household.
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Alberta January 21, 2013
As we all should know, breasts are there for the amusement of men and to sell cars.
What is shocking to is to have their real purpose revealed! -
Nan January 21, 2013
I don’t know a woman who breastfeeds in public that isn’t discreet about it! It’s ridiculous that women have to modify their perfectly normal behaviour for the prudish (more often hypocritical) comfort of others, and we’re labled the ones being selfish???!! Seriously most of the negative comments are from men who don’t have a clue and women who think that everyone needs to act the way they did – shamed into thinking that it’s somehow shameful. Leave us alone and we’ll be done in hardly any time at all.
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Rosie January 21, 2013
Nan – another very good comment. Well said.
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Em January 21, 2013
Kochie is what he is, a dinosaur. What I find infuritating and frustrating is the complict silence of female co-hosts. How does Mel reconcile this with her mumsy womans weekly puff pieces. Women are STILL there just to giggle and enable. The extreme end is of this useless scale jackie o. Lisa Wilkinson seems to be an exception.
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Aeron Winters January 21, 2013
I stopped watching Sunrise years ago (can’t stand Kochie’s infantile attitude), but this is exactly what I would expect from him, and Denyer. They both need to grow up.
As for the whole breastfeeding thing, I breastfed my daughter until she self weaned at 9 1/2 months. I fed her wherever, whenever. I fed her in shopping centres, while pushing a trolley (I used a sling to help hold her with one hand), I fed her in restaurants (had to get someone to cut up my steak so I could eat one handed), I fed her in cafes, in the park, wherever. She was preterm and fed often so venturing out between feedings would not have happened. The so called parents rooms (where they existed) in 1996-1997 were foul and attached to the toilets…yuck. If someone pointed out to me that I should stop or do it somewhere else, I told them that it was the most natural thing in the world and the way nature intended it to be done and to mind there own business. Oh, I should add, I also fed my daughter at the pool…just saying. -
Mary January 21, 2013
If it is in a public area where you would normally NOT sit with your boob out on show if you were NOT breastfeeding, then be discreet and cover it.
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Aeron Winters January 21, 2013
@Mary- It’s not like I put out a sign saying I was breastfeeding or just let my boob hang out there for the sake of it. I was discreet as I could be, I didn’t flash my nipples everywhere of anything, but I’m relatively sure that there was probably some side boobage showing on occasion….so what?! If you have nothing better to do then to watch me feed my baby, it’s YOUR problem, not MINE.
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Sharon Morris January 21, 2013
Why Mary? Why is the onus on women to be discreet? Why should others not be respectful and look away? How do you know if it’s not a new mum struggling to learn to breastfeed? It takes some time and practice before one can deftly remove a boob from the confines of a bra and latch on a hungry baby?
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Georgia January 21, 2013
Until women run the media, it seems the media will continue to promote misogyny. I avoid watching/reading mainstream media for this reason. These people wouldn’t have an original thought to bless themselves with; they are just stuck in their selfish sexism and self indulgent “performances” on screen which appear to be made up on “in” jokes and ego. yuk. Why is it called “breast” feeding. Why isn’t it just called “feeding”? It is so natural yet the term accentuates the anatomy of the woman rather than the activity. If men had babies it would be called “feeding the baby” not “breast” feeding.
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Megan January 21, 2013
It does take courage to breastfeed in public. I remember as a first-time mum, still learning the ropes as far as breastfeeding goes, I was out at a shopping centre, and baby needed a feed. The first few times I did it, I went to the parents’ room, and did it behind a curtain. Those facilities are not available everywhere though, and while they are great for the shy / inexperienced mums, it’s actually quite an isolating location to be feeding. I gradually got braver, and eventually fed wherever I had to – a thousand thanks to those cafes that have a ‘Breastfeeding friendly’ sticker on them, they are wonderful!
I expect that this whole hullabuloo over Kochie will make lots of nervous first-time mums think twice about how they will be perceived if they feed in public, which is a great shame. Men, please support your partners, and encourage them to breastfeed wherever they want to! Your support is critical.
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Susanna January 21, 2013
It’s noy about anything or anybody else-It is about you and your baby… Personally I find bottle feeding offensive… (just joking )… but it really is that stupid..
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Sally from Oz January 21, 2013
For gods sake get a life. Feed your child in public – I did. But don’t dangle your titties out for everyone to see. Cover yourself up it is not difficult, it is not an attack on your rights, it is common courtesy and respect.
I saw one woman recently feeding her child in public but while her child was attached to one side the unused boob was just hanging there exposed. Yuk yuk yuk!
Saw a different girl at a Kmart check out almost same thing. Was standing in queue boob dangling in child’s mouth. Not a pleasant site. A simple shawl covering the offensive nudity would have been appreciated.
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aussieblonk January 21, 2013
WTF!!! John Jay, please return to your planet..
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Rhoda January 21, 2013
Breast feeding is a very natural way for mothers to connect and bond with their babies but it’s more considerate to your baby to be feeding where you can both be comfortable and relaxed. The bonding and moments of relaxation are far more important than instant gratification.
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louise January 21, 2013
Let’s face it, while there are men like Kochie in the world, this will always be an issue because unless they are being used for sex, breasts will never be accepted for the very job they were designed!
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Sharon January 21, 2013
@Sally rom Oz, you say “yuk,yuk,yuk’, I say you really need to consider why a breast is so offensive to you. And why if it’s so offensive you are paying so much attention? Your comment says way more about you than any woman whose breasts you were clearly looking at.
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Karen January 21, 2013
This whole debate has been an eye opener for me. 5 years of breastfeeding 3 children and I never realised that I should be covering myself with a shawl or taking myself off to another room. I am honestly shocked that so many people (mothers included) talk about ‘flopping your titties out’ and other phrases that imply that feeding is some kind of sexual, attention-seeking act.
The idea that breastfeeding needs to be ‘discreet’ or should not be done in a ‘high traffic area’ gives breastfeeding mothers and the public in general the idea that breastfeeding is wrong or shameful or embarassing when it is none of those things.
I believe I was considerate of others when feeding in the same way I am considerate of others in all things I do in public. Breastfeeding should require no more and no less courtesy and discretion than any other normal task done in public. It is more akin to retieing your shoelace or answering your phone than topless sunbaking. -
Alex aka Whoa Mumma January 21, 2013
Grant Denyer’s behaviour before the story was just embarrassing and just reiterated the immature attitudes many men and some women have about the female body.
That breasts are sexual objects to be oggled and should be hidden away for a woman to be considered ‘classy’ and modest.What a load of crap. If you are embarrassed about seeing a nipple or a bit of side boob around a baby’s head then you’re the one who needs to look away. Maybe put a blanket over your head?
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Louise January 21, 2013
I am a mother of 2 girls, both of whom I breastfed. Yes, breast feeding is natural and beautiful and all that, and mothers do have a legal right to feed their baby without fear of being asked to stop. But, I am so over this issue and mothers banging on about their rights to feed their baby and their ‘holier than thou’ attitude about where and how they will feed their baby. It’s actually not about your legal right, it’s about being observant to your surroundings and that includes other people in those surroundings. Not everyone wants to see your boobs, you can be discreet, and courteous and still feed your baby. Given that your baby only needs your nipple it is really not necessary for there to be any more than that out! I have raised both my girls to be contributing, courteous members of our society, with a high level of empathy and observancy of their surrounding world…. just because you are comfortable with something, doesn’t mean that all those around you are. It is the much more mature person that is able to recognise this and adjust their behaviour accordingly. Not because they are ashamed or ‘not classy’, but because they have manners. Oh that’s right, most people have forgotten what manners are.
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Claire January 21, 2013
Why do people watch Sunrise and similar programs? It only adds fuel to the puerile tripe such programs offer.
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Janeen January 21, 2013
I work in regional radio and my fellow male announcers think there should be much more public breastfeeding – not less. They are working on the basis there must be a window of perving opportunity between the latch on and latch off part of the operation. Whilst they were making light of the issue – they are gorgeous young guys and couldn’t understand the fuss around what they view as a normal, natural part of life. Go Gen Y
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Harriet A January 21, 2013
For starters, stop refering to breastfeeding as “nursing” – it just perpetuates the myth that feeding ones child from ones breasts needs discretion if you can’t even use the word “breast” in conjunction with feeding!
Breastfed two kids (combined total about three and a half years) here, there and everywhere. Covered up a few times – because it was really dusty/dirty or it was really cold. Otherwise, it didn’t occur to me that I should be ‘covering’ anything – neither of my kids liked anything about their faces while eating, anyway.
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annie January 21, 2013
Have the Sunrise ratings dropped recently? I never watch the show but on reading about the comments made, assumed it was a publicity stunt to raise profile for the program. Did it work????
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Bella January 21, 2013
Why do they always try to avoid the actual issue by going on stupid tangents? Why isn’t it about all the freaks who obviously have issues with something so normal? Why is it about men who obviously feel some sort of ownership over women and think it’s ok to make judgements about what they do?! this whole thing scares me.
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Highcar January 21, 2013
I just don’t understand what is offensive about breastfeeding, why it is bad mannered and what being discreet actually means. Who are all these crazy breastfeeding feminazis who flop their tits out and dangle their bits in people’s faces? Most mum’s breastfeeding will be dictated by their babies needs and what they’re comfortable with. Why should they also constantly be on the lookout for who might be offended? My fear is all this rubbish about manners and consideration is going to scare first time mums from breastfeeding. Frankly I’m not offended by a breast, feeding or otherwise (unless it was in kochies mouth). It’s not a vagina, for christ’s sake! I thought we were a more progressive society than we clearly are.
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Miranda January 21, 2013
This is why I don’t watch Sunrise & similar. Turn off!
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Mary January 21, 2013
Responding to Aeron and Sharon, I breastfed in public too, but I didn’t think it was necessary to show people my breast. Yes they are a natural part of life and feeding our babies is what they are for, that is not in question. No-one notices the mum feeding discretly, so most times people would be walking or sitting near a mum breastfeeding and not even know.
Feeds would mostly be at home anyway,(should be getting plenty of practise there Sharon)so is it asking too much for the odd time you have to do it when you are in a public place to be a little discreet.
I spent a week on holidays with a mum who had a 4yr old. She never wore a bra so that her son could lift her top and have a quick suck whenever he felt like it. Not discreet at all and he certainly didn’t need it. Where do you draw the line as he was technically “breastfeeding” so should people be subjected to that at dinner or shopping centres and not be expected to feel uncomfortable. -
Nan January 21, 2013
@Mary, like I said earlier and its obvious people like you don’t listen, the majority of women are already discreet about where and when they feed, most of the time you wouldn’t even know its happening, it’s not about exhibitionism, and frankly, I hate men in speedos, young women in skimpy outfits, obnoxious drunks in restuarants and men roaming the streets wearing no shirt on hot days, but guess what, that’s my problem not theirs, theyre perfectly within their right to do all of those things. Just because you did it one way, don’t assume all mothers are like you. This is about calling breastfeeding in public something that’s not ‘classy’ and shaming women into thinking what they’re doing is wrong or somehow shameful and perverted when all they want to do is feed their hungry baby as quickly and with the minimal of fuss. Heaven forbid you might be exposed to a tiny bit of flesh and oh shock horror, a 5 sec glimpse of a nipple as the baby attaches all because you just couldn’t look away. You have a problem with someone feeding in public, even a friend (I’m assuming they were a friend because why someone would spend a week on holidays with someone who wasn’t their friend is another story) it’s your problem, for the small percentage of women who are at your level of being ‘discreet’ don’t give a rats what you or others of your ilk think.
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Tracy January 21, 2013
I enjoyed reading your comment Nan – you make good sense.
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carole/m January 21, 2013
Poor old John Jay only comes to this site to get his rocks off . He’s obsessed with ” Feminists “.
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anna January 21, 2013
My daughter (the Ageist) always blames “old people” for these backward attitudes, on just about every thing on the news. I have tried to explain to her that not everyone over 65 listens to Alan Jones etc..Piers Ackerman etc..
This news day is just inflaming her ageism. I have reminded her that she will hopefully be old some day.
BY the way I fed her for a year sometimes in public and I never had a problem. Its now 6.11 pm and its old news already…… -
Sharon Morris January 21, 2013
Mary I think you are paying way too much attention what other women are doing with their breasts. Whether a woman has lots of time at home to practice or not doesn’t matter if she has cracked nipples, mastitis, a baby who struggles to latch on or whatever. Stop getting bothered about such petty fabricated insults to your over keen sensibilities. Show some understanding and compassion, and if you cant do that just look the other way. Its really not hard.
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Dizz January 21, 2013
As long as breasts are considered to be sexual objects, this controversy will continue.
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ro.watson January 21, 2013
Anyway~how come boys and men get to swan around topless?
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joy January 21, 2013
I was at the Big Day Out in Sydney last Friday and the cameras to the big screen were doing closeups of girls sitting on shoulders. At one point a girl (not more than 17) dropped her shoulder straps and showed her boobs. It was broadcast to the big screen and masses. The crowd cheered and she had a look of shock. She was obviously egged on by the mob to “show her tits” ….. and she did. We need to educate young girls that your boobs are not for sport, nor to “please” men, but for yourself and to serve that later function of providing nourishment to their future babies. Its been great to see the breastfeeding mums get a bit more screen time. Feed and be proud.
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Belinda.Hinchey January 21, 2013
Just noticing lately that a lot of surfers have decided to drop their daks in the car park, don’t think it’s because they are showing off, think it’s just because there are less decent amenities available and councils have opted for open air showers as an environmental option instead. So open change all. The girls haven’t embraced it similarly putting up no doubt with sandy cracks and the like until they can find a private place to change. Balancing convenience with decency. Need a balanced debate but lets balance the convenience and perhaps confronting image of breastfeeding with the convenience and confronting image of getting out of those wet sandy sluggos.Same same.
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Mark Adamowski January 21, 2013
The question is what is more prolific. Where I live there are numerous enhanced bosom sightings in bikinis but with nipples discreetly covered for decency thank goodness, certainly no complaints and then in the car park there are frequent flashes of bums and dicks not covered which are quite disgraceful. Tongue in cheek of course but really who cares. All ridiculous.Flash if you must, albeit briefly, enhance if you choose, albeit silly and breastfeed if you need to.
There are more important things to worry about
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catecat January 21, 2013
Strangely, the same people who get scandalised about breastfeeding in public are often the same ones who get irritated by a hungry baby crying.
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Kirsten January 21, 2013
Turn off Ch 7 – we certainly have, along with any show/advert/promotion with any of the Ch 7 morning team. They carry on with inane nonsense frequently and this is further demonstration that they have minimal standards as presenters or individuals. It would be amazing if this debate could focus on the main issue; the health and well being of a small and vulnerable human being.
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Ruth January 21, 2013
I agree with Karen. Breastfeeding is just a normal part of life. Like it or not we are mammals and we feed our babies from our breasts. Babies need to be fed when they are hungry just like adults. Its not dirty or classy it is just “lunch”.
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haredro.watson January 21, 2013
I get breast-feeding. I am, as a childless woman,still able to nourish and nurture from what is between my breasts,oh yip, and my breasts too but with less focus. Call it my local geographical positioning system for someone who I am close to, and who is close to me. If you don’t get,and have not got, notions and experiences of shared human contact and closeness,I feel sorry for you~but don’t shame others for what you don’t understand.
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ro.watson January 21, 2013
Whoops~ that last post was by me.
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ro.watson January 21, 2013
I just gave of my experience of the place between my nipples as a childless woman. Oh well, such is in the lost and found.
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ro.watson January 21, 2013
Sorry Ruth, my mistake, not referring to your post. I typed my name in wrong.
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Mary January 21, 2013
She wasn’t my friend, she was invited along by the other couple we were with. The couple told us that she did this so we knew what to expect. You never said if you thought that was ok or was maybe going too far with breastfeeding. Her husband hated it. The people eating at the table across from us one night were quite horrified though. Yeh Yeh their problem (how many times is that line going to be dragged out) Really! Is everything always going to be “someone elses problem”? That is a copout excuse and it is selfish not willing to consider what another person might be feeling. If your Grandfather/father/inlaw for eg. found it uncomfortable done in front of them, do you still do it in front of them anyway because that is their problem, or do you go into another room? I also said – most times you wouldn’t be aware that a mum was breastfeeding, which you just repeated. I guess you were too angry to read that bit.. I personally do not care, but there is two sides to this and when people are so gungho about their own opinion (on either side) and refuse to consider the other has valid points, then this debate will never end. Those that want to be discreet will, those that don’t feel that they should won’t.
That is never going to change. Maybe like someone else wrote, GenY and X will be more easy going about this. -
ro.watson January 21, 2013
Um, women actually have three breasts, two with nipples, and the one in the centre of their chest that does not have a nipple but knows exactly what is right for them, you and their baby. Think about it this way as a flat chested female child? Where in your body did you feel your hurt feelings? In your sternum, between your two nipples which didn’t feel like much back then?!!
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Kate January 21, 2013
In the 80′s and 90′s, I breastfed my three children anywhere and everywhere, whenever the need arose. I was never embarassed or ridiculed. It has been proven over and again that ‘Breast is Best’ for our babies and yet it seems that mothers , 20+ years later have to hide what they are doing and defend their actions. Absolute craziness!! I could go on and on!!
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JanMe January 21, 2013
Over my lifetime I have endured ancient debates about miniskirts, unfortunate controversies about “unconvered meat”, now discretion needed in breast feeding, constant criticism of hijabs and burkas, acceptance and criticism of topless bathing, and on and on. And then I tried to think of one single issue related to men’s attire/moral constructs and nope! Couldn’t think of any. We fuel the fires of these destructive comments made by Kochie, and his nutter grandad John Jay, when we give them oxygen. Just keep doing what we all do with dignity, conviction and respect for each other. They’ll catch up one day.
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Wonda January 22, 2013
I am currently breast feeding my fourth child. I feed whenever and wherever my baby needs, showing discretion since I wouldn’t normally sit with my breast exposed to the general public. Funnily enough, I had to bottle feed one of my babies and clearly remember the filthy look I got from someone as I sat bottle feeding in the shops one day.
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Mayse January 22, 2013
I’ve seen my mum breast feed my two baby sisters in public in the 1940′s.
I did it in tn the 1960′s.
What on earth is all the fuss about.
Men haven’t got any manners at all in this so called modern world. -
Mischa January 22, 2013
I have no problem with Koch having an opinion on breastfeeding, but why can’t he be a bit classy and discreet about flopping his opinion out in front of everyone.
I think people deserve to be able to go about their day without having to cop an earful of pompous ignorance, but he is certainly quite entitled to think and say anything he wants in the privacy of his own home. It’s all about respect.
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DeeDee January 22, 2013
His attempts to redeem himself are pathetic. No mention of the amount of boob we see in advertising, or the juvenile behaviour of his weatherman yesterday – his childish comments about keeping ‘abreast’ of things or of the boob squeezing gestures. What Kochy fails to understand is that it is not his place to instruct women about what they should or shouldn’t do with their bodies. How about urging the public to cut women some slack and recognise that discretion and modesty is in the eye of the beholder. Offence is taken not given, if people see boob in the context of feeding – AND ARE OFFENDED, they are in the wrong! If they see boob on a massive billboard – BE OFFENDED BY THAT AND COMPLAIN! He still doesn’t get it and bragging about his boob friendly family just proves what an arrogant, self absorbed, elitist little man he really is! Publish that DT, I dare you!
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Joni January 22, 2013
I was watching a documentary about the linguist and former missionary Dan Everett visiting the Pirahã tribe— the isolated Amazonian hunter-gatherers and saw the women in the tribe breastfeeding constantly while they went about their day without any shame or fear. No hiding their babies under a blanket or sitting alone in a room….
My in laws made me spend any time I needed to breast feed alone in a dark room miles away from everyone and were upset when I needed to breast feed our unsettled first born in a restaurant ( and I would have done so very carefully with nothing showing) when we were out with them and made me leave and go home to do so. -
Nan January 22, 2013
Mary, it’s not my place to say whether or not your friend of a friends breastfeeding actions are ‘going too far’, like anything parenting related it’s a pretty touchy thing to talk about with most people. I’ll keep pulling that line out about it’s your problem until somehow it becomes against the law, because it’s true,, how you feel about this topic is your business the same way how I choose to feed my baby around my parents is my business not anyone elses. What you’re not getting at is that what is most repugnant about this debate is that breastfeeding is legal, is already done discreetly (as you mention and I’ve mentioned before) is necessary and not sexual or shameful, yet people feel the need to tell women to shut up about it, to go hide in a toilet, to cover up, when all around are advertisements with breasts on display that rival a Vegas showgirls act. Yes there are two sides and I’m pretty sure most mothers are conscious of that, they’re not doing this for attention or tittilation, a close friend of mine had to do it because her baby absolutely refused a bottle, she had no other choice (and those who say she should have stayed at home have no idea how isolating motherhood can be or have forgotten about it) but most people are hypocrites, bikini babe=ok, breastfeeding mum = disgusting and shameful. As an older first time mum I found despite being confident as a person in my career, being a mother is whole new ball game, things came from left field to throw your confidence that you never expected. It took a while for me to have courage to feed in public, but I do it because my baby needs it and I absolutely refuse to sit in a public toilet to do it. I’m always discreet because that is who I am, but I will never publicly shame other mothers who choose to do it differently, anymore than I’d tell that teenager to pull up his pants or another to cover up her midriff, it might be flaunted in front of me in ways I don’t like, but really, it’s none of my damn business. I apologise if I came off as angry but I do feel that it’s rather a non-issue in lots of ways for reasons I’ve already mentioned, but I get steamed when people use words like ‘not classy’ or equate it with urinating or defecating in public and somehow their offence at seeing a teency bit of flesh because they couldn’t just turn the other way for the short time it takes to do the job. The worst thing that could happen about this whole schmozzle is that women are drawn away from even giving breastfeeding a go, because Joe and Jane public don’t like or approve of it.
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NarelleM January 22, 2013
Good for you Nan, that was very well said.
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Joni January 22, 2013
10/10 for Nan’s comment.
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Nat January 22, 2013
Well said nan!
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katie January 22, 2013
I have been thinking about this, and although I totally agree with the right to publicly breastfeed etc and have done it myself, there is a “but”. Thing is, the breast is almost totally sexualised in our culture and we are asking men to switch off the sexual stimulus they have been conditioned to by all media from adolescence. Perhaps it is not surprising if they feel annoyed and confused.
I think it is a social problem that the breast has become a Western fetish object. Exclusively.
The question is, how do these men cope sexually with breastfeeding partners? Tne breast fetishism phenomenon seems ripe for psychological problems and potentially a distorted father-child relationship. But does this actually occur? If not, how have the men who complain about public confrontation, adjusted to their partners as feeding mothers? Or are all the whingers “lactation virgins”?
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san January 22, 2013
105 responses! Breastfeed with pride babies of Australia – brought to you by mothers.
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Sharon January 22, 2013
katie it’s an interesting question you raise. I think the men I know understand breasts are both sexual and functional, and they understand when women are breast feeding they are not being exposed for mens sexual gratification. In those instances all the men I know will be respectful of the woman feeding by neither ogling or ignoring. But taking your point about how pervasive the sexualisation of women’s breasts are and how confusing it may be for some men to separate this from their functional purpose, I think that’s for men to grapple with. This idea that men may be uncomfortable is worth acknowledging but the ownership of said discomfort belongs solely with them. Women should not be made to bear the burden of mens (and some women’s) awkward feelings. And essentially this is what Kochie and others are asking us to do.
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Getreal January 22, 2013
The more normalised breastfeeding becomes, the less fetishised that part of a woman’s anatomy by unresolved boymen.
Tough titties fellas.
Also, babies feed better when they and mum feel comfortable and relaxed. Applause to those women who voiced their protest at such senseless comments from that program. They have reminded us of the need to embrace breastfeeding and nurturing of the next generation.
On the subject of sensitivities, there’s this lingering image of Kochie attempting to jump into the back of an ambulance for an interview once that I just can’t erase from my memory banks. Time to grow up, Koch. -
MrsPashley January 23, 2013
Personally, I can’t stand David Koch – never understood his popularity at all.
I breastfed all three of my babies until they self-weaned and I fed them wherever and whenever they needed it. I always covered up because basically I felt shy at the thought of having three quarters of my breast on show, and my son took a long time to latch on, so I wanted to be able to attach him without being stared out, because I knew that would make me tense up. I know that there are some men who are waiting and watching for a glimpse of nipple, as it excites them sexually.We do live in a sexualised world, and a woman’s body is seen as a sexual object. Only when we breastfeed, men are reminded that breasts are not just for sexual gratification and this can be strangely discomforting for them.
I think breasts are lovely, whether they are used for feeding, filling out a dress, or piled into bra, or used for flirting with a little bit of cleavage. But most of all I believe we should respect them as ours, for their beautiful role in nourishing our children, and the gorgeousness of being female. David Koch will never understand that gift.
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Kristen January 23, 2013
As a mother who has fed each child for 3 years both privately and publicly, I believe its’s ridiculous to assume that a woman isn’t trying to be discreet.
For one, if a baby or toddler is attached, there’s no nipple showing (assuming that is what causes offence?). Secondly, once a baby is fed it’s not like a mother will then sit there best exposed until the next feed…
Lastly, anyone who has feed a curious infant outdoors knows that a muslin sheet over the breast and baby only invites a raucous game of peekaboo! -
Mary de Bavay January 23, 2013
I breastfed my first child when she needed a drink, on the 440 from the city to leichardt a number of times and was given wonderful support from my fellow passengers, mostly the wonderful Italians heading home too. That was back in the summer of 1984! I also fed her in public whenever she needed it and was never hassled or frowned at for doing so. Have we gone backwards in our attitudes? I also breastfed my twins! However that was about taking my top right down to my waist to bare both milk filled breasts to the babies, so I chose not to do that in public, however life was very hard as I was unable to go out until the twins were off the breast. I am proud I did that! They all now have their own beautiful breastfed children!
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erkoboy February 5, 2013
Thankfully Koch (ch7) , Jay J the loonycan be avoided. Also I think breastfeeding at a Mundine gig could be harmful to the child and mother byassociation.
